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The exact quote was, "Until you use an iPhone, a Mac, drive a BMW or Audi, you don't even realize how great the experience can be" I never said that you can't

The exact quote was, "Until you use an iPhone, a Mac, drive a BMW or Audi, you don't even realize how great the experience can be" I never said that you can't use Windows, an Android, or drive another car. But at some point you need to use the top end product to really appreciate what's out there. If you spend your whole life on Windows/BlackBerry/Toyota, you might not understand what a great product is. Before the iPhone came out, no one knew how great a phone could be. Even I didn't. The iPhone made me understand how you can take an existing feature set, and dramatically change a product through the experience. You're going with a blanket, "German cars suck"? Really? I'd bet German cars have more fanatics than Japanese cars do. German cars delight people. Lexus may outsell BMW, but that doesn't make it a better car. To me, a Lexus is just a high end Honda. It gets me from point A to point B, with a bit more luxury. One of Lexus's problems is that they don't have a vision, a passion. They just pump out what people will buy: http://sachin.posterous.com/the-problem-with-lexus-is-while-they-created http://sachin.posterous.com/the-problem-with-lexus-is-while-... And yes, BMW sucks at interface design. Where they excel is in building the ultimate driving machine. I'm all for BMW outsourcing their tech: http://sachin.posterous.com/stick-to-what-youre-good-at-for-bmw-thats-bui http://sachin.posterous.com/stick-to-what-youre-good-at-for-...

donaq 16y ago
Lexus may outsell BMW, but that doesn't make it a better car While the definition of "better" varies from person to person, They just pump out what people will buy the definition of a successful business is rather less subjective. Pumping out what people will buy is pretty much what makes a business successful. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the success of a product? Isn't a successful product the one with the most users?
- vetinari 16y ago
  >> They just pump out what people will buy > the definition of a successful business is rather less subjective. Pumping out what people will buy is pretty much what makes a business successful. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the success of a product? Isn't a successful product the one with the most users? We are talking about better products, not successful businesses. For example, Britney Spears outsells Tchaikovsky, but no one would argue that she makes better music.
  - mattmaroon 16y ago
    I would, because better is an absolute. It's better in some respects, less good in some, and therefore overall it depends on how you weight the attributes. I find it pretty awful myself, but a lot of people prefer it, therefore in a sense it is better.
- a4agarwal 16y ago
  outselling your competition is one way to define success (admittedly, a huge way). But another important factor is to follow your heart, have a vision, build what you want to build. The most successful companies (Apple, Zappos, Amazon, Google) have strong founders/leaders with strong visions for what they want to build. Those companies could easily pivot and make more money if they wanted to
vetinari 16y ago
You are still subjective. For many people, iPhone/Mac/BMW, Audi are not a top product. I'm one of many who like Windows 7 and Ubuntu better than OSX (I've spend more than decade as a Mac user); I like Android better than iPhone; also, while BMW is a fun to drive, S-Class Mercedes is also great experience, heck, I quite like VW Passat too and Audi is in "nothing special" category for me. So, for my taste, you generalize too much, picking your favourite brands as a superior product.
- a4agarwal 16y ago
  those are examples, not absolutes. You can't spend your whole life using commodity products and then think you can build a better one by adding a feature. Audi and VW are essentially the same company. Have you driven an Audi? The polish and finish on that car is incredible.
  - vetinari 16y ago
    Yup, company issue A4 for a year. Yes, Audi's interior was very polished, but driving BMW was fun (due to it's chassis, engine, etc). Compared to that, Audi was boring.
    - a4agarwal 16y ago
      my dream is a merger of the two companies. I went from Audi to BMW. I want the BMW engine, suspension, etc. and the Audi design and polish
mattmaroon 16y ago
I've made enough arrogant quotes on blogs in my day to recognize the backpedaling, but fine, I'll play along. You're defining the Mac or BMW as top-end. So I suppose you're the arbiter of what is top-end rather than taste. A Mac is no more top-end than a similarly priced PC, OSX no more than Windows 7, an iPhone no more than an EVO 4G, a BMW no more than a Lexus. Simply asking someone if they don't use a Mac or own an iPhone or drive a BMW doesn't rule out them having taste or, as you'd prefer to say it, having used a "great product." I've used OSX extensively and believe it or not just like Windows 7 a lot better. I've used iOS extensively on my iPad (we design games for it) and like WebOS much better. I've test driven most luxury car brands and what I haven't driven, I have friends who own, and I like Lexus better. Also you're wrong about Lexus, it's the sort of thing I suppose you'd have to own to understand. They have a vision: attention to detail. I think you'd especially appreciate it. Everything about a Lexus is perfect. Every little feature is in just the right place and works just as you'd expect. Their GPS and other related software is best in class. Where the attention to detail shows through the most is in the dealer experience. It's unrivaled. What Toyota knows that their competitors don't, and that car magazines rarely mention, is that the dealer experience is the most important factor in getting repeat business. I've test-driven most of the luxury brands. I liked them better than, say, a Honda, and the dealerships were nicer, but it wasn't the same. Lexus outsells the rest not because it's a bit more luxurious, but because it's as near perfection as the automotive industry has come yet.
- a4agarwal 16y ago
  My dad owns two Lexus's. I've driven them extensively. I agree the attention to detail and quality are high. In my opinion, Lexus does fall into the "great experience" category. I guess your "german cars suck" comment got me riled up. Windows 7 is modeled after OS X. Android was modeled after the iPhone. If you are designing a new product, you have to go out and see what's out there and learn from it. Someone who has never used one of these high end products simply doesn't know. It I started a blogging platform today, and all I had ever used was Xanga, I would probably build something 10% better than Xanga. And it would suck.

donaq 16y ago

Lexus may outsell BMW, but that doesn't make it a better car While the definition of "better" varies from person to person, They just pump out what people will buy the definition of a successful business is rather less subjective. Pumping out what people will buy is pretty much what makes a business successful. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the success of a product? Isn't a successful product the one with the most users?

vetinari 16y ago
>> They just pump out what people will buy > the definition of a successful business is rather less subjective. Pumping out what people will buy is pretty much what makes a business successful. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the success of a product? Isn't a successful product the one with the most users? We are talking about better products, not successful businesses. For example, Britney Spears outsells Tchaikovsky, but no one would argue that she makes better music.
- mattmaroon 16y ago
  I would, because better is an absolute. It's better in some respects, less good in some, and therefore overall it depends on how you weight the attributes. I find it pretty awful myself, but a lot of people prefer it, therefore in a sense it is better.
a4agarwal 16y ago
outselling your competition is one way to define success (admittedly, a huge way). But another important factor is to follow your heart, have a vision, build what you want to build. The most successful companies (Apple, Zappos, Amazon, Google) have strong founders/leaders with strong visions for what they want to build. Those companies could easily pivot and make more money if they wanted to

vetinari 16y ago

You are still subjective. For many people, iPhone/Mac/BMW, Audi are not a top product. I'm one of many who like Windows 7 and Ubuntu better than OSX (I've spend more than decade as a Mac user); I like Android better than iPhone; also, while BMW is a fun to drive, S-Class Mercedes is also great experience, heck, I quite like VW Passat too and Audi is in "nothing special" category for me. So, for my taste, you generalize too much, picking your favourite brands as a superior product.

a4agarwal 16y ago
those are examples, not absolutes. You can't spend your whole life using commodity products and then think you can build a better one by adding a feature. Audi and VW are essentially the same company. Have you driven an Audi? The polish and finish on that car is incredible.
- vetinari 16y ago
  Yup, company issue A4 for a year. Yes, Audi's interior was very polished, but driving BMW was fun (due to it's chassis, engine, etc). Compared to that, Audi was boring.
  - a4agarwal 16y ago
    my dream is a merger of the two companies. I went from Audi to BMW. I want the BMW engine, suspension, etc. and the Audi design and polish

mattmaroon 16y ago

I've made enough arrogant quotes on blogs in my day to recognize the backpedaling, but fine, I'll play along. You're defining the Mac or BMW as top-end. So I suppose you're the arbiter of what is top-end rather than taste. A Mac is no more top-end than a similarly priced PC, OSX no more than Windows 7, an iPhone no more than an EVO 4G, a BMW no more than a Lexus. Simply asking someone if they don't use a Mac or own an iPhone or drive a BMW doesn't rule out them having taste or, as you'd prefer to say it, having used a "great product." I've used OSX extensively and believe it or not just like Windows 7 a lot better. I've used iOS extensively on my iPad (we design games for it) and like WebOS much better. I've test driven most luxury car brands and what I haven't driven, I have friends who own, and I like Lexus better. Also you're wrong about Lexus, it's the sort of thing I suppose you'd have to own to understand. They have a vision: attention to detail. I think you'd especially appreciate it. Everything about a Lexus is perfect. Every little feature is in just the right place and works just as you'd expect. Their GPS and other related software is best in class. Where the attention to detail shows through the most is in the dealer experience. It's unrivaled. What Toyota knows that their competitors don't, and that car magazines rarely mention, is that the dealer experience is the most important factor in getting repeat business. I've test-driven most of the luxury brands. I liked them better than, say, a Honda, and the dealerships were nicer, but it wasn't the same. Lexus outsells the rest not because it's a bit more luxurious, but because it's as near perfection as the automotive industry has come yet.

a4agarwal 16y ago
My dad owns two Lexus's. I've driven them extensively. I agree the attention to detail and quality are high. In my opinion, Lexus does fall into the "great experience" category. I guess your "german cars suck" comment got me riled up. Windows 7 is modeled after OS X. Android was modeled after the iPhone. If you are designing a new product, you have to go out and see what's out there and learn from it. Someone who has never used one of these high end products simply doesn't know. It I started a blogging platform today, and all I had ever used was Xanga, I would probably build something 10% better than Xanga. And it would suck.