4 ms·

It's weird, I started in C# but haven't touched anything Microsoft for roughly 10 years. That's how long they've been asleep, maybe longer. I would have killed

It's weird, I started in C# but haven't touched anything Microsoft for roughly 10 years. That's how long they've been asleep, maybe longer. I would have killed for official cross-platform C#, if only for a decent UI toolkit (Mono was too bigger pain), and I'm sure C# would have significantly dented the popularity of e.g. Python. Instead C# never outgrew Windows, while many developers and companies did. Meanwhile, Java has kept evolving and taking chances, so much so that Java 8+ is pleasant enough. Only now has Microsoft realized the error, but way too late.

thermodynthrway 8y ago
It's a damn shame really. MS killed the golden goose by tryiing to squeeze too much money out of it years ago. C# is an excellent langauge, the design and type system are just incredible. But they missed the open source boat by about a decade and it's yet to be seen if their attempt to rally is too late
- RangerScience 8y ago
  It's distinctly possible that Unity3D will "rescue" this aspect if C#, although from what I saw of the community it's not there yet. Probably the lack of a good package / dependency manager - oh, and the lack of up-to-date C# support (last I checked you were stuck way back with 3.5). Yadda yadda, if I wanted to "fix" the lack of an open source community in C#, I'd start with the Unity3D community.
  - kamac 8y ago
    In the latest Unity version (2018) you have access to C# 6 (stable) and .NET 4.6.
    - UnpossibleJim 8y ago
      The problem with that is, there are now open source game engines coming on the scene that are promising (in the long run, and yes it's a BIG maybe) to upset Unity's stranglehold, that support Python and in the future C# to lure away Unity devs. I'm speaking of Godot. I'm not sure how successful they'll truly be but I, for one, am hoping they bring a solid rivalry. Python as a scripting language makes sense, in this arena, anyways, as it's the scripting language for Blender. A single scripting language for 3D software and game engine in a game studio just makes sense.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Only makes sense in modern game engines if it comes with a JIT. I can go for a coffee when Blender does some kind of data transformation, I can't do that in a middle of a rendering a frame 60 times per second.
    - Latty 8y ago
      It can also do .net standard 2.0, which is great for library compatibility, and the experimental (but working) incremental compiler is Roslyn based and can do c# 7.2.
    - RangerScience 8y ago
      Oh, horray! I stopped working with Unity3D, and so haven't been in the loop
- valeriob 8y ago
  I don't think that's accurate, we use opensource .net dev stack since 5/8 years, and since 3 it can be deployed on win, linux and osx.
valeriob 8y ago
That's unfortunate, since ms opensource journey started 10 years ago :D Java as a language stagnated 10 years compared to anything (example lambda). .net has been the source of many technologies, CQRS/ES, Async/Await, Reactive Programming, etc.
- guitarbill 8y ago
  Woah there. I think a lot of these need citations. While it's true that .NET had async/await in 2007 (F#, AFAIK), Microsoft open-sourcing things isn't that old. From what I can see, their most popular open-source projects are TypeScript (Oct 2012, so 5 years ago), and VSCode (Apr 2015, so 3 years ago). .NET Core was Nov 2014, also 3 years ago. Cynically, you might say they released VSCode and .NET Core because VS and .NET were dying slow deaths, maybe the same can be said for TypeScript, because JavaScript/web dev cannibalized Microsoft's markets. Meanwhile, the interesting technologies, especially relating to web development, ops/deployment, or data storage and processing are first-class citizens in Linux (and macOS gets a free ride, because POSIX and desktop). Most of them don't use Java , but enough do: Lucene/ElasticSearch, Cassandra (and probably DynamoDB, even if it isn't OSS), Hadoop, Neo4j, Kafka, and more. It's not even close. Please understand I'm not hating on C#, or saying Java was why these things are successful (definitely not), but I think it helps to understand the eco-systems surrounding both C# and Java. C# may be a nice language, and may be able to run on Linux. In 2005 (C# 2.0) it was almost revolutionary, but now it's just another language. Meanwhile everybody else has been learning and using the other languages to build great things - distinctly without Microsoft.
  - valeriob 8y ago
    Yep you are right, i rounded too much, mvc is from 2009 : https://stackoverflow.com/questions/734892/asp-net-mvc-is-now-open-source-is-this-a-good-thing https://stackoverflow.com/questions/734892/asp-net-mvc-is-no... But the bulk of it started a bit later with the whole .net ecosystem. I agree with all you said, but i'm referring to the previous comment where ms has been all but asleep in the last 10 years :D Anyway talking about language and dev-environment are two completly different conversations, and i'm not wrong saying that Java as language stagnated far too long. I never said the .net eco system thrived meanwhile :D

thermodynthrway 8y ago

It's a damn shame really. MS killed the golden goose by tryiing to squeeze too much money out of it years ago. C# is an excellent langauge, the design and type system are just incredible. But they missed the open source boat by about a decade and it's yet to be seen if their attempt to rally is too late

RangerScience 8y ago
It's distinctly possible that Unity3D will "rescue" this aspect if C#, although from what I saw of the community it's not there yet. Probably the lack of a good package / dependency manager - oh, and the lack of up-to-date C# support (last I checked you were stuck way back with 3.5). Yadda yadda, if I wanted to "fix" the lack of an open source community in C#, I'd start with the Unity3D community.
- kamac 8y ago
  In the latest Unity version (2018) you have access to C# 6 (stable) and .NET 4.6.
  - UnpossibleJim 8y ago
    The problem with that is, there are now open source game engines coming on the scene that are promising (in the long run, and yes it's a BIG maybe) to upset Unity's stranglehold, that support Python and in the future C# to lure away Unity devs. I'm speaking of Godot. I'm not sure how successful they'll truly be but I, for one, am hoping they bring a solid rivalry. Python as a scripting language makes sense, in this arena, anyways, as it's the scripting language for Blender. A single scripting language for 3D software and game engine in a game studio just makes sense.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Only makes sense in modern game engines if it comes with a JIT. I can go for a coffee when Blender does some kind of data transformation, I can't do that in a middle of a rendering a frame 60 times per second.
  - Latty 8y ago
    It can also do .net standard 2.0, which is great for library compatibility, and the experimental (but working) incremental compiler is Roslyn based and can do c# 7.2.
  - RangerScience 8y ago
    Oh, horray! I stopped working with Unity3D, and so haven't been in the loop
valeriob 8y ago
I don't think that's accurate, we use opensource .net dev stack since 5/8 years, and since 3 it can be deployed on win, linux and osx.

valeriob 8y ago

That's unfortunate, since ms opensource journey started 10 years ago :D Java as a language stagnated 10 years compared to anything (example lambda). .net has been the source of many technologies, CQRS/ES, Async/Await, Reactive Programming, etc.

guitarbill 8y ago
Woah there. I think a lot of these need citations. While it's true that .NET had async/await in 2007 (F#, AFAIK), Microsoft open-sourcing things isn't that old. From what I can see, their most popular open-source projects are TypeScript (Oct 2012, so 5 years ago), and VSCode (Apr 2015, so 3 years ago). .NET Core was Nov 2014, also 3 years ago. Cynically, you might say they released VSCode and .NET Core because VS and .NET were dying slow deaths, maybe the same can be said for TypeScript, because JavaScript/web dev cannibalized Microsoft's markets. Meanwhile, the interesting technologies, especially relating to web development, ops/deployment, or data storage and processing are first-class citizens in Linux (and macOS gets a free ride, because POSIX and desktop). Most of them don't use Java , but enough do: Lucene/ElasticSearch, Cassandra (and probably DynamoDB, even if it isn't OSS), Hadoop, Neo4j, Kafka, and more. It's not even close. Please understand I'm not hating on C#, or saying Java was why these things are successful (definitely not), but I think it helps to understand the eco-systems surrounding both C# and Java. C# may be a nice language, and may be able to run on Linux. In 2005 (C# 2.0) it was almost revolutionary, but now it's just another language. Meanwhile everybody else has been learning and using the other languages to build great things - distinctly without Microsoft.
- valeriob 8y ago
  Yep you are right, i rounded too much, mvc is from 2009 : https://stackoverflow.com/questions/734892/asp-net-mvc-is-now-open-source-is-this-a-good-thing https://stackoverflow.com/questions/734892/asp-net-mvc-is-no... But the bulk of it started a bit later with the whole .net ecosystem. I agree with all you said, but i'm referring to the previous comment where ms has been all but asleep in the last 10 years :D Anyway talking about language and dev-environment are two completly different conversations, and i'm not wrong saying that Java as language stagnated far too long. I never said the .net eco system thrived meanwhile :D