6 ms·

Vendors who have partaken in the "bundled crapware" model of distribution - Google, Amazon, Yahoo, Microsoft, Adobe, Oracle, etc, etc. >They have decided that

by ksk 8y ago

Vendors who have partaken in the "bundled crapware" model of distribution - Google, Amazon, Yahoo, Microsoft, Adobe, Oracle, etc, etc. >They have decided that tricking people into downloading malware is a reasonable alternative to charging money for their software or soliciting donations. If you would be so kind enough as to show them how to make money perhaps they'll stop doing it. >Its truly amazing to me that installing windows software is still like this. Eh? Which OS platform are you using that does not allow a user to execute binaries?

michaelmrose 8y ago
I would rather they go out of business if they can't figure out another way to make money. You CAN install binaries on other platforms but on for example linux distros their is a curated platform of packages where you can get most/all software. The fact that this is the default way to install software and regular users don't need to look beyond the official repos is why installing software on linux isn't this kind of shit show.
- ksk 8y ago
  Well, I do think there is some hypocrisy on the part of people (including myself) enjoying free software and services, when the revenue of those is generated by unaware people clicking on ads or accidentally installing crapware. >You CAN install binaries on other platforms but on for example linux distros their is a curated platform of packages where you can get most/all software. Sure, but things often work better when you pay people upfront rather than get something for free and let them fend for themselves. In the case of Linux packaging, there is no mechanism for monetization or advertising, so the point doesn't come up. >The fact that this is the default way to install software and regular users don't need to look beyond the official repos is why installing software on linux isn't this kind of shit show. I'd use Linux if it had the software that I want to use. So a bit of apples-oranges here...
  - code_duck 8y ago
    "things often work better when you pay people upfront rather than get something for free and let them fend for themselves"... Whoah, for a second I thought this was 1999.
    - ksk 8y ago
      I guess I must have fallen into a time machine since I just purchased Photoshop last month.
      - code_duck 8y ago
        That would be which logical fallacy? Something where you take something I said to a nonsensical extreme? I certainly never asserted that people did not pay for software. My point is that free software is very proven as a development, distribution, whatever method by now.
        ksk 8y ago
        >My point is that free software is very proven as a development, distribution, whatever method by now. Yes, it is indeed proven that when you pay people to develop software, it works great. (Linux, FF, Chrome, Photoshop, Windows, etc, etc). The license doesn't seem to make much of a difference. When you don't - (your typical freeware on download.com) - they have to figure out a revenue stream after the fact, and the choices they end up making cause them to be on the front page of HN where people line up to call them "scum". Obviously this is not about hobbyist/part-time developers with a github repo, who are already getting paid through an external job, etc.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Looking at the official numbers of desktop Linux installed systems looks like it.
      - code_duck 8y ago
        Why would we take that one, narrow specific segment of software taken as an example of the success or value of open source as a whole? It would be as useful as comparing web server software market share as an indicator of whether Microsoft has succeeded as a company.
  - justinclift 8y ago
    > In the case of Linux packaging, there is no mechanism for monetization or advertising, so the point doesn't come up. Just to point out, there are commercial versions of Linux (Red Hat, SUSE Linux, likely others). Both with workstation and server variants.
- skolemtotem 8y ago
  > I would rather they go out of business if they can't figure out another way to make money. Only for some other unscrupulous company to replace them? Ideally, the most profitable method should be ethical by nature, unlike the current situation in software (and games, of course) where the most profitable methods are among the least ethical.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    Ideally we can support good software by donating to it but this is challenging to. Perhaps a software store for various platforms that defaults to charging money for open source software you haven't already paid for. Let the user set a multiplier that effects the price so it is reasonable for that user and let the user also change the price if they desire. They CAN pay zero for insert filezilla competitor here but the default is 3.99. This is probably already more than for example filezilla makes for selling out their users.
Joeri 8y ago
I got tricked into installing adware as part of a java install, and took me many hours to get it back off my system. I don’t get why microsoft isn’t pushing all these vendors really hard to distribute through the windows store. The windows store is a graveyard compared to the mac app store, despite having a head start and a bigger target audience, and it’s basically impossible to use windows without sideloading apps. Microsoft is pushing windows S at people, where you can’t sideload software, but the windows store just isn’t ready for that and all it will do is push people to the mac when they inevitably have a bad experience.
- ksk 8y ago
  Because nobody really wants to give the AppStore 30% of their revenue. Having it be a percentage of the revenue instead of just a flat fee means its just a money-grab IMHO. Ironically Apple is arguing in court that Qualcomm is doing the same thing to them (charging a percentage based on retail pricing) and that the price is unfair.
  - NiveaGeForce 8y ago
    Very soon it won't be 30% anymore. https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2018/05/07/a-new-microsoft-store-revenue-share-is-coming/ https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2018/05/07/a-new-micr...
    - ksk 8y ago
      :o Nice..
  - 9935c101ab17a66 8y ago
    lol you're out here arguing that the people who are (without FULLY disclosing it) bundling malware that downloads and compiles DATs/unsigned binaries from anon domains are in the right, but you have a problem with Apple's revenue model for the App Store?
    - ksk 8y ago

by ksk 8y ago

michaelmrose 8y ago

I would rather they go out of business if they can't figure out another way to make money. You CAN install binaries on other platforms but on for example linux distros their is a curated platform of packages where you can get most/all software. The fact that this is the default way to install software and regular users don't need to look beyond the official repos is why installing software on linux isn't this kind of shit show.

ksk 8y ago
Well, I do think there is some hypocrisy on the part of people (including myself) enjoying free software and services, when the revenue of those is generated by unaware people clicking on ads or accidentally installing crapware. >You CAN install binaries on other platforms but on for example linux distros their is a curated platform of packages where you can get most/all software. Sure, but things often work better when you pay people upfront rather than get something for free and let them fend for themselves. In the case of Linux packaging, there is no mechanism for monetization or advertising, so the point doesn't come up. >The fact that this is the default way to install software and regular users don't need to look beyond the official repos is why installing software on linux isn't this kind of shit show. I'd use Linux if it had the software that I want to use. So a bit of apples-oranges here...
- code_duck 8y ago
  "things often work better when you pay people upfront rather than get something for free and let them fend for themselves"... Whoah, for a second I thought this was 1999.
  - ksk 8y ago
    I guess I must have fallen into a time machine since I just purchased Photoshop last month.
    - code_duck 8y ago
      That would be which logical fallacy? Something where you take something I said to a nonsensical extreme? I certainly never asserted that people did not pay for software. My point is that free software is very proven as a development, distribution, whatever method by now.
      - ksk 8y ago
        >My point is that free software is very proven as a development, distribution, whatever method by now. Yes, it is indeed proven that when you pay people to develop software, it works great. (Linux, FF, Chrome, Photoshop, Windows, etc, etc). The license doesn't seem to make much of a difference. When you don't - (your typical freeware on download.com) - they have to figure out a revenue stream after the fact, and the choices they end up making cause them to be on the front page of HN where people line up to call them "scum". Obviously this is not about hobbyist/part-time developers with a github repo, who are already getting paid through an external job, etc.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Looking at the official numbers of desktop Linux installed systems looks like it.
    - code_duck 8y ago
      Why would we take that one, narrow specific segment of software taken as an example of the success or value of open source as a whole? It would be as useful as comparing web server software market share as an indicator of whether Microsoft has succeeded as a company.
- justinclift 8y ago
  > In the case of Linux packaging, there is no mechanism for monetization or advertising, so the point doesn't come up. Just to point out, there are commercial versions of Linux (Red Hat, SUSE Linux, likely others). Both with workstation and server variants.
skolemtotem 8y ago
> I would rather they go out of business if they can't figure out another way to make money. Only for some other unscrupulous company to replace them? Ideally, the most profitable method should be ethical by nature, unlike the current situation in software (and games, of course) where the most profitable methods are among the least ethical.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  Ideally we can support good software by donating to it but this is challenging to. Perhaps a software store for various platforms that defaults to charging money for open source software you haven't already paid for. Let the user set a multiplier that effects the price so it is reasonable for that user and let the user also change the price if they desire. They CAN pay zero for insert filezilla competitor here but the default is 3.99. This is probably already more than for example filezilla makes for selling out their users.

Joeri 8y ago

I got tricked into installing adware as part of a java install, and took me many hours to get it back off my system. I don’t get why microsoft isn’t pushing all these vendors really hard to distribute through the windows store. The windows store is a graveyard compared to the mac app store, despite having a head start and a bigger target audience, and it’s basically impossible to use windows without sideloading apps. Microsoft is pushing windows S at people, where you can’t sideload software, but the windows store just isn’t ready for that and all it will do is push people to the mac when they inevitably have a bad experience.

ksk 8y ago
Because nobody really wants to give the AppStore 30% of their revenue. Having it be a percentage of the revenue instead of just a flat fee means its just a money-grab IMHO. Ironically Apple is arguing in court that Qualcomm is doing the same thing to them (charging a percentage based on retail pricing) and that the price is unfair.
- NiveaGeForce 8y ago
  Very soon it won't be 30% anymore. https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2018/05/07/a-new-microsoft-store-revenue-share-is-coming/ https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2018/05/07/a-new-micr...
  - ksk 8y ago
    :o Nice..
- 9935c101ab17a66 8y ago
  lol you're out here arguing that the people who are (without FULLY disclosing it) bundling malware that downloads and compiles DATs/unsigned binaries from anon domains are in the right, but you have a problem with Apple's revenue model for the App Store?
  - ksk 8y ago