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If failure is your own fault, then logically success must be your own making. But that of course misses out on a huge chunk of understanding. I have been prett

If failure is your own fault, then logically success must be your own making. But that of course misses out on a huge chunk of understanding. I have been pretty successful compared with many people I grew up with - sure, I worked hard for that, but I also had the benefit of good parents, enough money, no discrimination, free education, and so on. It’s easy to forget that a kid from a less supportive background has to work harder to get to the same place. It’s not their fault that they had to work through college, or drop out to care for a family member. Personal effort obviously contributes to success and failure. But it’s totally obvious that it’s not the only factor.

AmericanChopper 8y ago
>Personal effort obviously contributes to success and failure. But it’s totally obvious that it’s not the only factor. It’s the greatest factor of all. I grew up dirt poor with a drug addicted mother. Could you tell me how I could have possibly derived any benefit from blaming life for dealing me a bad hand? My point stands, the only thing I can do to move my life forward is focus on the things I can control. I can’t control how unfair the world is, but I can control what I take away from failure. This concept of privilege is used it such a messed up way. It doesn’t matter where you start out, the only thing you can do to make your life better is take responsibility for yourself. Your argument seems to boil down saying that if you have to try to hard you may as well just not bother because it’s not your fault.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  Sorry, you've misinterpreted this. It's rational and correct to tackle underlying causes of inequality. You're correct that the only thing that can be done is to deal with the situation you find yourself it; you're wrong that you "can’t control how unfair the world is". The world will remain unfair unless we all try to fix that situation – and drawing attention to is one of the steps required. Everybody has responsibility for themselves. But that's not an excuse to shut people down for complaining about inequality.
  - AmericanChopper 8y ago
    You've misinterpreted what equality actually is. We're born unequal. We're all born with different levels of physical and mental ability. We're also all born in different circumstances. This is simply the natural state of the world. Advocating for people to wallow in despair over this fact is far more harmful than beneficial. As I said, the only thing you can do to make a better life for yourself is to take responsibility for your life. The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity. Allowing people to compete on equal terms. Although we could improve on this point, we actually already do it pretty well. At no time in my life have I ever been denied an opportunity because I grew up poor, or because my mother was (and still is) a drug addict. I have found many opportunities to improve my life, and I have taken advantage of many of them. Everything else you can't 'fix'. I guess if you wanted to destroy society you could enforce equal circumstances for everybody. You could tax income at 100%, and redistribute all resources perfectly equally between all members of society, but people would still be born with their own set of natural talents and abilities. The message that "it's not your fault, it's inequality's fault" is so incredibly destructive and dangerous. The only person responsible for getting your life to where you want it to be is you.
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      I'm sorry again, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Like I said, it is down to each individual to make the best with what they have. I don't advocate anybody "wallowing in despair", but I do fully support objecting to structural inequality that denies people the opportunity to compete fairly. The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity. Obviously. Although we could improve on this point, we actually already do it pretty well. We do it shockingly badly by almost every metric. At no time in my life have I ever been denied an opportunity because I grew up poor I have no reason to think you don't believe that, but it's almost certainly not true. It's completely obvious that this is the case. If you grow up poor, it is harder to access better education, better nutrition, better medical care. These subsequently have an effect on which opportunities one can take advantage of. I have found many opportunities to improve my life, and I have taken advantage of many of them. That's awesome! It's the only way to improve one's own outcome. It doesn't invalidate the fact that those opportunities are harder to come by for people of some backgrounds. redistribute all resources perfectly equally between all members of society, but people would still be born with their own set of natural talents and abilities. We don't require complete redistribution nor absolute equality of circumstances in order to improve the situation. We can make sure that there are well-funded public schools, so that children from poor backgrounds can receive high-quality education. We can provide welfare systems and education programs so that kids have access to quality nutrition. We can provide universal medical care. We can try to eliminate structural racism or homophobia. There are all good things that are worth arguing for. The message that "it's not your fault, it's inequality's fault" is so incredibly destructive and dangerous. The only person responsible for getting your life to where you want it to be is you. Far more dangerous, in my opinion, is the view that unequal circumstances are unavoidable and the best thing to do is to "put up or shut up", as it were. I do not claim that anybody other than yourself is responsible for your own life, but I totally disagree that we should pretend inequality doesn't exist, or that we shouldn't bother fighting it. It's not an excuse for failure, but it's also something that very obviously makes it more likely. There's a comic I quite like that illustrates this: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

AmericanChopper 8y ago

>Personal effort obviously contributes to success and failure. But it’s totally obvious that it’s not the only factor. It’s the greatest factor of all. I grew up dirt poor with a drug addicted mother. Could you tell me how I could have possibly derived any benefit from blaming life for dealing me a bad hand? My point stands, the only thing I can do to move my life forward is focus on the things I can control. I can’t control how unfair the world is, but I can control what I take away from failure. This concept of privilege is used it such a messed up way. It doesn’t matter where you start out, the only thing you can do to make your life better is take responsibility for yourself. Your argument seems to boil down saying that if you have to try to hard you may as well just not bother because it’s not your fault.

matthewmacleod 8y ago
Sorry, you've misinterpreted this. It's rational and correct to tackle underlying causes of inequality. You're correct that the only thing that can be done is to deal with the situation you find yourself it; you're wrong that you "can’t control how unfair the world is". The world will remain unfair unless we all try to fix that situation – and drawing attention to is one of the steps required. Everybody has responsibility for themselves. But that's not an excuse to shut people down for complaining about inequality.
- AmericanChopper 8y ago
  You've misinterpreted what equality actually is. We're born unequal. We're all born with different levels of physical and mental ability. We're also all born in different circumstances. This is simply the natural state of the world. Advocating for people to wallow in despair over this fact is far more harmful than beneficial. As I said, the only thing you can do to make a better life for yourself is to take responsibility for your life. The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity. Allowing people to compete on equal terms. Although we could improve on this point, we actually already do it pretty well. At no time in my life have I ever been denied an opportunity because I grew up poor, or because my mother was (and still is) a drug addict. I have found many opportunities to improve my life, and I have taken advantage of many of them. Everything else you can't 'fix'. I guess if you wanted to destroy society you could enforce equal circumstances for everybody. You could tax income at 100%, and redistribute all resources perfectly equally between all members of society, but people would still be born with their own set of natural talents and abilities. The message that "it's not your fault, it's inequality's fault" is so incredibly destructive and dangerous. The only person responsible for getting your life to where you want it to be is you.
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    I'm sorry again, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Like I said, it is down to each individual to make the best with what they have. I don't advocate anybody "wallowing in despair", but I do fully support objecting to structural inequality that denies people the opportunity to compete fairly. The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity. Obviously. Although we could improve on this point, we actually already do it pretty well. We do it shockingly badly by almost every metric. At no time in my life have I ever been denied an opportunity because I grew up poor I have no reason to think you don't believe that, but it's almost certainly not true. It's completely obvious that this is the case. If you grow up poor, it is harder to access better education, better nutrition, better medical care. These subsequently have an effect on which opportunities one can take advantage of. I have found many opportunities to improve my life, and I have taken advantage of many of them. That's awesome! It's the only way to improve one's own outcome. It doesn't invalidate the fact that those opportunities are harder to come by for people of some backgrounds. redistribute all resources perfectly equally between all members of society, but people would still be born with their own set of natural talents and abilities. We don't require complete redistribution nor absolute equality of circumstances in order to improve the situation. We can make sure that there are well-funded public schools, so that children from poor backgrounds can receive high-quality education. We can provide welfare systems and education programs so that kids have access to quality nutrition. We can provide universal medical care. We can try to eliminate structural racism or homophobia. There are all good things that are worth arguing for. The message that "it's not your fault, it's inequality's fault" is so incredibly destructive and dangerous. The only person responsible for getting your life to where you want it to be is you. Far more dangerous, in my opinion, is the view that unequal circumstances are unavoidable and the best thing to do is to "put up or shut up", as it were. I do not claim that anybody other than yourself is responsible for your own life, but I totally disagree that we should pretend inequality doesn't exist, or that we shouldn't bother fighting it. It's not an excuse for failure, but it's also something that very obviously makes it more likely. There's a comic I quite like that illustrates this: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate