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Yes and once some genius worked out that you could make money out of thin air (John Law) governments became very powerful. Nobody who has control of this system
by danieltillett 8y ago
Yes and once some genius worked out that you could make money out of thin air (John Law) governments became very powerful. Nobody who has control of this system will give it up easily, certainly not to a bunch of nerds with a cool idea.
- barry-cotter 8y agoGovernment has been very powerful as long as it has existed. The most powerful political organisation in a given territory is a reasonable definition of government.
- danieltillett 8y agoGovernments were far weaker in the hard currency days. Not only were they limited to a fairly small tax take (10% max), they had huge problems raising the money to run the state. Governments of the past did little beyond protecting you from other governments. Sure any one individual could end up on the sharp end of the pointy stick of state, but overall most people lived their lives almost completely free of government because the state lacked the funds needed to do much beyond fight wars.
- walshemj 8y agoEr no the state could do what it dam well liked one of the things that got Charles the 1st into trouble was the use of Saltpetermen - who where allowed to dig up your property to look for Saltpeter
- nl 8y agoThis is just completely untrue. It is unclear to me if control of currency had anything to do with it, but looking at the power that feudal governments had over serfs[1] (as an example) it difficult to see how your argument stacks up. Far from being free, a serf's entire life was dictated by the demands of the government. The size of the family unit was dictated by the amount of labor a serf household owed the lord, and that could be as high as six days of labor per week (hence the size of the family unit was dictated: the if the serf could provide children to do the labor that counted as one person-day). Another example, English villeins (peasants) in the early middle ages owed their lord (ie, the government) 117 days work per year. Thats a little more than the 10% you claim. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom
- danieltillett 8y agoThe "lord" was not the government for starters and the serfs paid no more than 10% tax to the government. The serfs paid the owner of the land (the lord) for their home and business. The interesting thing is how little has changed over time - most people are still paying about the same amount of their labor to their landlord, the only difference is it is paid in money not kind.
- nl 8y agoThe lord certainly was government in a feudal society.
- danieltillett 8y agoNo the lord was the lord. Yes they had powers over their serfs, but they weren't the government and they could not make laws. Certainly being a serf was not ideal, but most serfs had very little interaction with government. They paid a small amount of tax and beyond that they were left alone by government.
- nl 8y agoFeudalism was government. It's even listed on the Wikipedia page as a form of government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_government The definition is perfectly government: "In its classic definition.. feudalism describes a set of reciprocal legal and military obligations among the warrior nobility revolving around the three key concepts of lords, vassals and fiefs." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism) The feudal system filled exactly the role government fills today. It did it differently, but the local lord was just as much a part of government as a state or local government is in the US today (indeed more-so, since they had legal power over life and death).
- danieltillett 8y agoI think we are arguing past each other.
- mcguire 8y agoForgery had been a thing log before John Law.
- danieltillett 8y agoYes but government issued paper money wasn't.