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I guess this turns the discussion around poverty into a 'chicken and egg' discussion. Which one was first? One's poverty or one's inability to make good life ch

I guess this turns the discussion around poverty into a 'chicken and egg' discussion. Which one was first? One's poverty or one's inability to make good life choices? So conservatives will say the latter and liberals will say the first, because you've probably been oppressed by someone and we are already back at square one.

jl2718 8y ago
There go those poor people with their defective brains making bad decisions again. Bullshit. Poor people make bad decisions because they have more opportunities to do so, and less opportunities to make good decisions. Rich people don’t have to decide a damn thing to end up on top, just do what you’re told, work hard, and go with the flow; have your quarter-life identity crisis after you get your MBA and take that VP job at GS. Poor people don’t have any easy answers, and rich people would probably do a lot worse in their situation.
- xstartup 8y ago
  Rich people don’t have to decide a damn thing to end up on top, just do what you’re told, work hard, and go with the flow; have your quarter-life identity crisis after you get your MBA and take that VP job at GS It's so true as a rich man, I never needed to study much. If I need to make a deal, I ask my rich friends/family members for a referral to a lawyer, most of the time the lawyer itself is a member of the extended family, at least that's what it feels like. So, if the task is outside his expertise, he recommends me a very good person. They completely dissect the problem and analyze it from multiple angles, I find their insights helpful much like the insights from Hacker news members. Same way, we know most bankers by their face in our city. If I even see the slightest mark on my skin, I ask my family doctor and they offer me best recommendation. Once upon a time I applied for a credit card but I defaulted on payment, not because of lack of cash but because I never studied how a credit card works. So, what I did? I just hired a guy with employment contract set out to prevent such losses due to high interests on a credit card etc... He works with my financial planner now. If you read through my comments, you'll see how dumb I really am. But navigating life, making friends, marrying a beautiful woman is a lot easier for me than understanding credit card rules. My sympathy with people who are stuck with same issues as me. In my family also there are only a few truly smart people, rest have inherited most of their wealth.
  - throwawayj91 8y ago
    > Once upon a time I applied for a credit card but I defaulted on payment, not because of lack of cash but because I never studied how a credit card works. > But navigating life, making friends, marrying a beautiful woman is a lot easier for me than understanding credit card rules. I mean this nicely: if you don’t know how a credit card works to the point of default, you shouldn’t have a credit card. I mean, it’s in the name: credit. You say you don’t understand credit card rules, but that’s not even a rule, that’s just the basic function of the card. It doesn’t take study, it takes three seconds of grabbing someone off the street and asking “how does a credit card work?” As someone not from money, it is incredibly frustrating to read that you hired someone to deal with a basic problem that we all learn how to manage in high school, when some of us have ACTUAL problems that we can’t afford to just make vanish. > If I even see the slightest mark on my skin, I ask my family doctor and they offer me best recommendation. Please learn when to see a doctor. Most marks on your skin are benign or normal, and when something is really wrong you can tell (e.g. infection, irregular mole/growth, etc.) Everything else is a waste of healthcare time and dollars.
- saintPirelli 8y ago
  Rich people have it easier, that shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. But on the other hand it shouldn't come as a surprise either, that if you make decisions that propagate poverty, you will be more likely to end up poor.
  - yellowapple 8y ago
    More importantly: your children will end up poor through no fault of their own, and once you're there, the increased cognitive load of having to get by on less makes it much harder to break the cycle. The association between poverty and things like poor nutrition, fewer school choices, etc. certainly does not help, either. Not to mention that, as others said, making the "right" choices may not be financially feasible; when you're poor, you're more often than not stuck in a "lesser of evils" situation.
    - saintPirelli 8y ago
      Again, yes, people start their lives from different positions and it is obviously much easier to win the race if you have pole position in your dad-sponsored car than when you are the water boy. Still I'm not willing to just assume that the distribution of capital in western countries is purely due to luck and some kind of capitalistic malevolence by "the rich" and that if you are poor your life is completely out of your hands, because of some kind of "structural oppression".
DoreenMichele 8y ago
In the US, one serious medical crisis can simultaneously make you exhausted and unable to think straight while plunging you into poverty that is nigh impossible to escape. For many Americans, the only bad life choice they made was being born here, then routine attrition took care of the rest because if you live long enough, you are pretty much guaranteed to have a serious health issue. It's just a matter of time.
- xstartup 8y ago
  In the US, one serious medical crisis can simultaneously make you exhausted and unable to think straight while plunging you into poverty that is nigh impossible to escape. In Europe, we've don't have healthcare issues - it's free here. Still, the people are unhappy and poor. Society as a whole is a lot more equal tho, I've friends who are very poor and ones who are very rich and I never sensed a discrimination.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I'm not sure someone from Europe can really grasp the kind of horrifying desperation of an American with a medical crisis. Americans have to wrestle with questions like "If I go and it's not serious, I'm screwed financially. If I don't go and it is serious, I'm screwed financially and in other ways." Especially if you are a parent. Not taking your kid for medical treatment can get you charged with neglect potentially. It's just a really ugly situation that I have never actually faced and it puts me in a weird position. I've lived more like a European in some ways, because my father and ex were both career military.
- saintPirelli 8y ago
  Yes, bad things happen to people. I absolutely agree. I fail to see how that statement is related to the article or my comment on it though.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    It means it isn't a chicken and egg problem. It isn't a question of which came first: bad decisions or poverty? You can be comfortably well off, do all the right things and find your life suddenly coming unraveled through no fault of your own.

jl2718 8y ago

There go those poor people with their defective brains making bad decisions again. Bullshit. Poor people make bad decisions because they have more opportunities to do so, and less opportunities to make good decisions. Rich people don’t have to decide a damn thing to end up on top, just do what you’re told, work hard, and go with the flow; have your quarter-life identity crisis after you get your MBA and take that VP job at GS. Poor people don’t have any easy answers, and rich people would probably do a lot worse in their situation.

xstartup 8y ago
Rich people don’t have to decide a damn thing to end up on top, just do what you’re told, work hard, and go with the flow; have your quarter-life identity crisis after you get your MBA and take that VP job at GS It's so true as a rich man, I never needed to study much. If I need to make a deal, I ask my rich friends/family members for a referral to a lawyer, most of the time the lawyer itself is a member of the extended family, at least that's what it feels like. So, if the task is outside his expertise, he recommends me a very good person. They completely dissect the problem and analyze it from multiple angles, I find their insights helpful much like the insights from Hacker news members. Same way, we know most bankers by their face in our city. If I even see the slightest mark on my skin, I ask my family doctor and they offer me best recommendation. Once upon a time I applied for a credit card but I defaulted on payment, not because of lack of cash but because I never studied how a credit card works. So, what I did? I just hired a guy with employment contract set out to prevent such losses due to high interests on a credit card etc... He works with my financial planner now. If you read through my comments, you'll see how dumb I really am. But navigating life, making friends, marrying a beautiful woman is a lot easier for me than understanding credit card rules. My sympathy with people who are stuck with same issues as me. In my family also there are only a few truly smart people, rest have inherited most of their wealth.
- throwawayj91 8y ago
  > Once upon a time I applied for a credit card but I defaulted on payment, not because of lack of cash but because I never studied how a credit card works. > But navigating life, making friends, marrying a beautiful woman is a lot easier for me than understanding credit card rules. I mean this nicely: if you don’t know how a credit card works to the point of default, you shouldn’t have a credit card. I mean, it’s in the name: credit. You say you don’t understand credit card rules, but that’s not even a rule, that’s just the basic function of the card. It doesn’t take study, it takes three seconds of grabbing someone off the street and asking “how does a credit card work?” As someone not from money, it is incredibly frustrating to read that you hired someone to deal with a basic problem that we all learn how to manage in high school, when some of us have ACTUAL problems that we can’t afford to just make vanish. > If I even see the slightest mark on my skin, I ask my family doctor and they offer me best recommendation. Please learn when to see a doctor. Most marks on your skin are benign or normal, and when something is really wrong you can tell (e.g. infection, irregular mole/growth, etc.) Everything else is a waste of healthcare time and dollars.
saintPirelli 8y ago
Rich people have it easier, that shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. But on the other hand it shouldn't come as a surprise either, that if you make decisions that propagate poverty, you will be more likely to end up poor.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  More importantly: your children will end up poor through no fault of their own, and once you're there, the increased cognitive load of having to get by on less makes it much harder to break the cycle. The association between poverty and things like poor nutrition, fewer school choices, etc. certainly does not help, either. Not to mention that, as others said, making the "right" choices may not be financially feasible; when you're poor, you're more often than not stuck in a "lesser of evils" situation.
  - saintPirelli 8y ago
    Again, yes, people start their lives from different positions and it is obviously much easier to win the race if you have pole position in your dad-sponsored car than when you are the water boy. Still I'm not willing to just assume that the distribution of capital in western countries is purely due to luck and some kind of capitalistic malevolence by "the rich" and that if you are poor your life is completely out of your hands, because of some kind of "structural oppression".

DoreenMichele 8y ago

In the US, one serious medical crisis can simultaneously make you exhausted and unable to think straight while plunging you into poverty that is nigh impossible to escape. For many Americans, the only bad life choice they made was being born here, then routine attrition took care of the rest because if you live long enough, you are pretty much guaranteed to have a serious health issue. It's just a matter of time.

xstartup 8y ago
In the US, one serious medical crisis can simultaneously make you exhausted and unable to think straight while plunging you into poverty that is nigh impossible to escape. In Europe, we've don't have healthcare issues - it's free here. Still, the people are unhappy and poor. Society as a whole is a lot more equal tho, I've friends who are very poor and ones who are very rich and I never sensed a discrimination.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I'm not sure someone from Europe can really grasp the kind of horrifying desperation of an American with a medical crisis. Americans have to wrestle with questions like "If I go and it's not serious, I'm screwed financially. If I don't go and it is serious, I'm screwed financially and in other ways." Especially if you are a parent. Not taking your kid for medical treatment can get you charged with neglect potentially. It's just a really ugly situation that I have never actually faced and it puts me in a weird position. I've lived more like a European in some ways, because my father and ex were both career military.
saintPirelli 8y ago
Yes, bad things happen to people. I absolutely agree. I fail to see how that statement is related to the article or my comment on it though.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  It means it isn't a chicken and egg problem. It isn't a question of which came first: bad decisions or poverty? You can be comfortably well off, do all the right things and find your life suddenly coming unraveled through no fault of your own.