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Basic income. The older I get the more I strongly hope that the future finds some version of the ideas currently in research and testing regarding basic life su
by hellofunk 8y ago
Basic income. The older I get the more I strongly hope that the future finds some version of the ideas currently in research and testing regarding basic life support to all peoples. There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyone, whether you personally need it or not.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> There is so much to gain by doing so, for everyon Not for everyone. For young people. The way we’ll get UBI is by repurposing Social Security and possibly Medicare funds for its purpose. That, in turn, requires millenials turn out to vote.
- tuesdayrain 8y agoIf UBI leads to increased productivity, everyone would benefit. Not just people who need it.
- dorchadas 8y agoIf we had UBI and a single payer system, I think we would see lots of productivity. And not just in direct monetary means, but also in terms of cultural output and people finally are free of being tied to a job and can take a chance. Same with new businesses that'll be popping up.
- rhizome 8y agoI think it would be simpler to repurpose the military budget.
- gaius 8y agoHere's the thing about the "young people" argument: the young, because time, live in a world built by the old. Everything from the physical infrastructure to the social institutions. So if paying for pensions is a wealth transfer from young to old, usage of the built environment is the opposite flow. In other words, the people who built say the roads did so for a package of renumeration that included a salary and a pension. Now you are proposing to renege on half of that deal. Fine - but stop using the roads you didn't pay to build in the first place. Stop using the technology that you didn't pay to do the basic research for. Not such an attractive deal now is it?
- dd36 8y agoAnd debt is an intergenerational tax that fully offsets your argument. The young didn’t run deficits.
- WalterBright 8y agoWith a fiat money system, there's no requirement to ever pay it off. It isn't like credit card debt. The central bank just issues more money.
- jimnotgym 8y agoExcept in the UK we have a government who think that you need to run the economy like a household budget. They have been trying to cut spending to reduce debt since 2010. This has decimated public services, yet the debt is still there and deepening! A course on Modern Monetary Theory wouldn't go amiss...
- dd36 8y agoYes it is like a credit card. You have to make payments and it reduces your cash flow. The Federal Reserve prints money not the government. And payments aren’t made with printed money.
- WalterBright 8y agoIn modern fiat money, the money isn't printed. It's created by issuing bonds and then counting those bonds as an asset. The money is created when the bank loans out money based on those bond assets. If you believe it needs to be ever paid back, it hasn't been paid back since 1914. It just grows ever larger. The initial 1914 version pegged the fiat money to gold. Like all pegging systems, they eventually collapse catastrophically, and this one did in 1929.
- dd36 8y agoI disagree with the theory that we can grow our debt forever without consequence. I never advocated pegging to anything. Private banks create money through lending, correct. Lending is constrained by the supply of creditworthy customers. Money is not issued by decree by the Federal Reserve or the government.
- zeth___ 8y ago325 million people in the US. Give each person $10k so they can feed themselves and live in a tent. That's 3.25 trillion dollars. The total federal budget in 2015 was 3.8 trillion dollars [0]. After we disband the army, navy and air force, liquidate medicare, medicade and social security where do you think we should get the missing 1 trillion or so from? [0] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud...
- alexandros 8y agoDo you really think everyone of the 325 million will be a recipient of the $10k income, or perhaps only the ones that earn the least? Is this a proposal any sane advocate of UBI has put forward, or are you perhaps strawmanning a slight bit? I am not necessarily in agreement with everything UBI related, but adding noise to the conversation isn't going to get us to any insights any quicker.
- zeth___ 8y agoNot to be glib but _Universal_ rather implies something.
- felix_nagaand 8y agoSure universal does imply everyone. However just because on paper someone recieved $10k that does necessarily translate into an expenditure or disbursement.
- hueving 8y agoIf it's only for poor people it's not UBI. It's just a less restricted form of welfare.
- oldcynic 8y agoHow many under 18s in that 325m? UBI would be for those of working age would it not? I've seen arguments UBI should include pensioners, but never for it to include minors.
- jVinc 8y ago> whether you personally need it or not. The point of basic income is that everyone needs it to be there. You personally may not need the added income as the head of a multinational hugely successful electronics company selling luxury mobile phones and reaping in billions. But who's going to have enough money to buy your phones when 50% of people are out of work because your companies like your own have cut workforce by 70%? We are at a point where we have become too efficient at so many fields, which is not healthy in an idealistic capitalistic Society. All the wealth concentrates at few actors, and then it starts clogging the wheels instead of oiling them.
- ryandrake 8y agoHow does society prevent rioting when we reach 50% labor participation? How about 10% or 1%. Each will happen, possibly within our lifetimes, because of automation and extreme efficiency improvements.
- jimnotgym 8y agoThe answer is right above you. Universal Income. However I suspect that instead society will let the owners of the automation become staggeringly wealthy while 50% of the working population are on the bread-line. Then there will be riots, then perhaps we will get a more equitable sharing of the value that society has created.
- jfz 8y agoHow do you know? Massive productivity increases over the last 40 years have not reduced labor participation in the slightest.
- adynatos 8y agopersonally i hope with all my heart that your socialist nightmare will never come to pass.
- hellofunk 8y agoYcombinator is already doing active research in this area, and a few European countries have already put it into practice in test cities.
- adynatos 8y agoand at least one abandoned it - finland.
- dorchadas 8y agoAnd I hope with all my heart that our current capitalist nightmare ends soon.
- hellofunk 8y agoAgreed. Capitalism and the prioritized pursuit of profits have only created the problem of poverty and wealth gaps that we now find affecting everyone.
- adynatos 8y agoi wholeheartedly agree. the present crony capitalism and government interventionism into the market are damaging to the honest enterpreneur - one that doesn't have a senator's ear. the only way for free market to work is for goverment to back off. it's good that at least one other person understands that!
- mynameishere 8y agoYou can't just call something a nightmare. You have to point out to these blindly privileged rich knuckleheads that the garbage man won't be taking out the garbage if UBI comes to pass. No shit. He won't. Not unless you pay him 300,000/year and that's a whole other kind of economic catastrophe.