3 ms·

Back in the day, lots of 'normal people' used irc too. I like things with open standards, so that people can use the tools that work for them. Bob can use the

Back in the day, lots of 'normal people' used irc too. I like things with open standards, so that people can use the tools that work for them. Bob can use the Gmail web interface to send and receive email, and Sally can use gnus in Emacs to send and receive email on her own local server.

digi_owl 8y ago
Only for Google to spam-hole anything sally sends...
- peepeepoopoo 8y ago
  It really boggles my mind that a few actors were able to essentially lock down a federated protocol.
  - rasengan 8y ago
    Exactly. That actually causes me anger. Email is so decentralized as a protocol and implementation and yet Google, Yahoo, etc now control email and then made it hard to send email using SPAM as an excuse.
greglindahl 8y ago
Back in the day, the IRC crowd had a lot more 'normal people' than Usenet, which was the other social outlet on the Internet.
dmitriid 8y ago
> Back in the day, lots of 'normal people' used irc too. "Back in the day" they had no choice or little other choice but. And even then "normal people" would prefer things like AIM and ICQ for reasons obvious to anyone except the self-proclaimed not-normal above-average über-men.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  But mIRC was (is?) also easy to use. AIM, Discord etc. have the 'word-processor problem': the protocol and the interface are inexorably intertwined. You're stuck with whatever user interface they provide. And this 'word-processor problem' is compounded by the 'normal people' issue, or, even worse than that, the 'lowest common user' problem. It's optimisation not for the best or the most powerful or even the prettiest interface, but rather optimisation for ease-of-immediate-use. (I.e. the interface for word-processors, whether LibreOffice or Word, are miserable environments for actually creating in, because they're tailored to not even 'average users' but to 'inexperienced and lazy users' - those who want to be able to sit down and use it without any training.) With an open standard, you can have good interfaces for 'normal people' and an interface for 'lowest common users' and interfaces for other types of users, and this enables all of these types to be able to interact.
  - dmitriid 8y ago
    > With an open standard, you can have good interfaces for 'normal people' and an interface for 'lowest common users' and interfaces for other types of users Please show me a cross-platform good interface for "normal people" for either IRC or XMPP: that supports all the latest standards and is on par with, say, Slack. Where cross-platform isn't Windows-Linus-Mac, but desktop-mobile. For IRC I'm aware of none (except the ... closed-source web/electron-based irccloud, the irony). For XMPP there's just Conversations for Android, and that's it. I also like the tech bro considers "normal users" to be bad, be cause there's "even worse than that, the lowest common user". There is a reason why people don't use the crappy half-baked barely usable crap that tech-bro non-normal above-average über men produce.
    - molsongolden 8y ago
      thelounge works great on both desktop and mobile.

digi_owl 8y ago

Only for Google to spam-hole anything sally sends...

peepeepoopoo 8y ago
It really boggles my mind that a few actors were able to essentially lock down a federated protocol.
- rasengan 8y ago
  Exactly. That actually causes me anger. Email is so decentralized as a protocol and implementation and yet Google, Yahoo, etc now control email and then made it hard to send email using SPAM as an excuse.

greglindahl 8y ago

Back in the day, the IRC crowd had a lot more 'normal people' than Usenet, which was the other social outlet on the Internet.

dmitriid 8y ago

> Back in the day, lots of 'normal people' used irc too. "Back in the day" they had no choice or little other choice but. And even then "normal people" would prefer things like AIM and ICQ for reasons obvious to anyone except the self-proclaimed not-normal above-average über-men.

_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
But mIRC was (is?) also easy to use. AIM, Discord etc. have the 'word-processor problem': the protocol and the interface are inexorably intertwined. You're stuck with whatever user interface they provide. And this 'word-processor problem' is compounded by the 'normal people' issue, or, even worse than that, the 'lowest common user' problem. It's optimisation not for the best or the most powerful or even the prettiest interface, but rather optimisation for ease-of-immediate-use. (I.e. the interface for word-processors, whether LibreOffice or Word, are miserable environments for actually creating in, because they're tailored to not even 'average users' but to 'inexperienced and lazy users' - those who want to be able to sit down and use it without any training.) With an open standard, you can have good interfaces for 'normal people' and an interface for 'lowest common users' and interfaces for other types of users, and this enables all of these types to be able to interact.
- dmitriid 8y ago
  > With an open standard, you can have good interfaces for 'normal people' and an interface for 'lowest common users' and interfaces for other types of users Please show me a cross-platform good interface for "normal people" for either IRC or XMPP: that supports all the latest standards and is on par with, say, Slack. Where cross-platform isn't Windows-Linus-Mac, but desktop-mobile. For IRC I'm aware of none (except the ... closed-source web/electron-based irccloud, the irony). For XMPP there's just Conversations for Android, and that's it. I also like the tech bro considers "normal users" to be bad, be cause there's "even worse than that, the lowest common user". There is a reason why people don't use the crappy half-baked barely usable crap that tech-bro non-normal above-average über men produce.
  - molsongolden 8y ago
    thelounge works great on both desktop and mobile.