3 ms·

I don't have the stats, but anecdotally I can report that that time emphatically does not include the PhD process, and almost certainly doesn't include post-doc

I don't have the stats, but anecdotally I can report that that time emphatically does not include the PhD process, and almost certainly doesn't include post-doc time. There is probably a big difference between the sciences and the humanities here- my guess is that it's longer for humanities than sciences, but I could easily be wrong about that.

jayp 16y ago
I do. At many/most well-known US research universities, a tenure-track position in Engineering (and possibly, Sciences too) is up for evaluation after six years from start of hire. The exact term may vary from institute to institute, but is six for most of the top universities. At that point, they either give you promotion (i.e., tenure) or a one-year notice (i.e., fire you). Note that this is not "full" tenure, this is technically a promotion from Assistant to Associate Professor. However, it is still tenure, and you can keep the job for life. It doesn't have the prestige of a full tenure. Full tenure is likely to follow, if you keep similar pace, in 3-5 more years. In summary, tenure can be had in as little as 6 years after completing PhD for professors in Engineering. But, those are probably the 6 hardest working years of their life. Makes the PhD almost feel like a cakewalk.
- crystalis 16y ago
  To generalize from a few anecdotes, the Humanities professors that "do" something can get their Association card in as little as 5 years. (e.g., notable book, visible research, department responsibilities...)
  - billswift 16y ago
    In other words, "20 years" is for a layabout?
    - enjo 16y ago
      I can't imagine there is a school in existence that would let someone flounder about for 20 years without tenure. Even lower level schools generally make a tenure/fire decision at year 5.
- scott_s 16y ago
  And this does not include postdocs. CS is unusual that some people can go straight from grad school to professorship - I've seen it happen many times - but most sciences require at least one postdoc. I can't speak for engineering.
enjo 16y ago
I may be around the wrong schools, but I believe the average nationwide is something in the range of 6 years for tenure. Source: my wife, PhD and professor in Accounting. Also member of her schools tenure committee.

jayp 16y ago

I do. At many/most well-known US research universities, a tenure-track position in Engineering (and possibly, Sciences too) is up for evaluation after six years from start of hire. The exact term may vary from institute to institute, but is six for most of the top universities. At that point, they either give you promotion (i.e., tenure) or a one-year notice (i.e., fire you). Note that this is not "full" tenure, this is technically a promotion from Assistant to Associate Professor. However, it is still tenure, and you can keep the job for life. It doesn't have the prestige of a full tenure. Full tenure is likely to follow, if you keep similar pace, in 3-5 more years. In summary, tenure can be had in as little as 6 years after completing PhD for professors in Engineering. But, those are probably the 6 hardest working years of their life. Makes the PhD almost feel like a cakewalk.

crystalis 16y ago
To generalize from a few anecdotes, the Humanities professors that "do" something can get their Association card in as little as 5 years. (e.g., notable book, visible research, department responsibilities...)
- billswift 16y ago
  In other words, "20 years" is for a layabout?
  - enjo 16y ago
    I can't imagine there is a school in existence that would let someone flounder about for 20 years without tenure. Even lower level schools generally make a tenure/fire decision at year 5.
scott_s 16y ago
And this does not include postdocs. CS is unusual that some people can go straight from grad school to professorship - I've seen it happen many times - but most sciences require at least one postdoc. I can't speak for engineering.

enjo 16y ago

I may be around the wrong schools, but I believe the average nationwide is something in the range of 6 years for tenure. Source: my wife, PhD and professor in Accounting. Also member of her schools tenure committee.