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The tricky part is there is no "them" to fight. "Them" is just another "Us". And "we" are responsible for the way things are (albeit to lesser degree perhaps) t

The tricky part is there is no "them" to fight. "Them" is just another "Us". And "we" are responsible for the way things are (albeit to lesser degree perhaps) the same as bank presidents and congressional representatives and CEOs of large corporations. My feeling is we can't lay the problems of the modern world at the feet of individuals. There isn't a shadowy cabal intent on keep the little people down. It's just people and groups struggling for power and resources with varying degrees of a success. That's not to say there aren't collusions and conspiracies and bad doings by people with power, there most certainly are, but the fact these succeed are problems of a system. Because people are people are people and the new boss is same as the old boss and 4 legs good 2 legs better and all that jazz. What is needed are some systemic updates. And these will happen inevitably I think.

mythrwy 8y ago
Just to expand a bit on the above, look at currently top rated poster with 100K in student loans. I think it's somewhat axiomatic this out of balance and most people would consider it "wrong" and "abusive". So who is to blame? The bankers? Well, ya, partially. The government who let it get like this and didn't make funding education a priority? Yep, as well. School administrators who keep adding on layer after layer of useless non-productive bureaucracy driving up costs to astronomical levels? Yep, them too. How about companies that insist someone sit in classes like literature for at least a couple of years before they can push buttons on a machine? Yep. How about people who try to fake their way into jobs they can't do necessitating the previous? well, yep, them too. How about a guy who wants to "get on with the university" so he can have good benefits and a pension after 20 or 30 years? he's partially to blame as well. Point is, we can't just blame bankers and politicians and corporations and call it a day. Our activity, almost to the person is responsible for the horrible outcomes. We all are trying to get a little piece of the pie and the sum total in this system is producing undesirable side effects. Housing is another prime example. It's ridiculous. Way out of wack. Unless you bought a house 30 years ago then what a great way to save for retirement and housing appreciating is fantastic! I really think we need to back up and address some fundamentals. Housing, healthcare and education being big ones. These aren't a place for speculation and self serving bureaucracy. They are necessities of life and an advancing society. So we need to change some things about how these are run. But that means some people will no longer be able to victimize others and will lose out. But it's not all just bankers and CEOs. It's a lot of little sucker fish attached to the ecosystem as well. So it's not as easy as just getting out the guillotine which is all too common of a reaction.
rpearl 8y ago
> That's not to say there aren't collusions and conspiracies and bad doings by people with power, there most certainly are, but the fact these succeed are problems of a system You are describing a "cabal intent on keeping the little people down". The cabal works by taking steps to perpetuate systemic inequality forward. The people involved are extremely well positioned and connected, have ridiculous amounts of material resources to call upon, and are extremely highly incentivized to keep these systemic flaws around. Thus, there is no reason to believe that systemic updates will inevitably happen.
- mythrwy 8y ago
  There are lot of people incentivized to keep things one way or the other. They aren't all big people. Presumably no one wants to see the system crash. But if each person can cheat just a little, well, it's everyone else's fault in their minds. The power elite conspiracy model in my mind is too simple and doesn't fully explain the phenomenon. Because instability isn't good for anyone so I belive it's much more complex and systemic rather than a planned conspiracy of a group of individuals. Systemic change is inevitable I think. Sometimes it involves a hard reboot or re-install though and no one in their right mind wants that. So maybe some things in the system can be fixed to restore balance. But first we need an accurate model of what is going on, and as loathsome as bankers and insurance CEOs might be, this isn't all their doing and they aren't the only ones preventing the fix.

mythrwy 8y ago

Just to expand a bit on the above, look at currently top rated poster with 100K in student loans. I think it's somewhat axiomatic this out of balance and most people would consider it "wrong" and "abusive". So who is to blame? The bankers? Well, ya, partially. The government who let it get like this and didn't make funding education a priority? Yep, as well. School administrators who keep adding on layer after layer of useless non-productive bureaucracy driving up costs to astronomical levels? Yep, them too. How about companies that insist someone sit in classes like literature for at least a couple of years before they can push buttons on a machine? Yep. How about people who try to fake their way into jobs they can't do necessitating the previous? well, yep, them too. How about a guy who wants to "get on with the university" so he can have good benefits and a pension after 20 or 30 years? he's partially to blame as well. Point is, we can't just blame bankers and politicians and corporations and call it a day. Our activity, almost to the person is responsible for the horrible outcomes. We all are trying to get a little piece of the pie and the sum total in this system is producing undesirable side effects. Housing is another prime example. It's ridiculous. Way out of wack. Unless you bought a house 30 years ago then what a great way to save for retirement and housing appreciating is fantastic! I really think we need to back up and address some fundamentals. Housing, healthcare and education being big ones. These aren't a place for speculation and self serving bureaucracy. They are necessities of life and an advancing society. So we need to change some things about how these are run. But that means some people will no longer be able to victimize others and will lose out. But it's not all just bankers and CEOs. It's a lot of little sucker fish attached to the ecosystem as well. So it's not as easy as just getting out the guillotine which is all too common of a reaction.

rpearl 8y ago

> That's not to say there aren't collusions and conspiracies and bad doings by people with power, there most certainly are, but the fact these succeed are problems of a system You are describing a "cabal intent on keeping the little people down". The cabal works by taking steps to perpetuate systemic inequality forward. The people involved are extremely well positioned and connected, have ridiculous amounts of material resources to call upon, and are extremely highly incentivized to keep these systemic flaws around. Thus, there is no reason to believe that systemic updates will inevitably happen.

mythrwy 8y ago
There are lot of people incentivized to keep things one way or the other. They aren't all big people. Presumably no one wants to see the system crash. But if each person can cheat just a little, well, it's everyone else's fault in their minds. The power elite conspiracy model in my mind is too simple and doesn't fully explain the phenomenon. Because instability isn't good for anyone so I belive it's much more complex and systemic rather than a planned conspiracy of a group of individuals. Systemic change is inevitable I think. Sometimes it involves a hard reboot or re-install though and no one in their right mind wants that. So maybe some things in the system can be fixed to restore balance. But first we need an accurate model of what is going on, and as loathsome as bankers and insurance CEOs might be, this isn't all their doing and they aren't the only ones preventing the fix.