4 ms·

>For some reason that period of tremendous growth barely helped millennials. I don't think it's just us, though it probably disproportionately is. What wealth

>For some reason that period of tremendous growth barely helped millennials. I don't think it's just us, though it probably disproportionately is. What wealth small and medium towns had has moved to cities, you just won't have a good job unless you move to the city. Something about it all seems so sinister. Not everyone can be an engineer or a doctor. If society is to function people need to be able to live a reasonable life just being mildly productive.

TAForObvReasons 8y ago
In a world where the sum total of productive human labor potential is not needed to sustain the human population, we need to rethink social organization. We should want to encourage productivity improvements, but if people's self worth is tied to their labor, all we do is effectively remove people from society
thatfrenchguy 8y ago
Yeah and if you live in a city in the US and you don’t work in finance/tech/whatever high earning job, you’re forced out. Not so great either.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > if you live in a city in the US and you don’t work in finance/tech/whatever high earning job, you’re forced out I have friends in New York's service industry (bartenders, waiters, et cetera). Breaking in was tough. But once they established themselves, they began doing quite well. Economised with roommates; diligently saved; kept a tight budget and continuously applied to the affordable housing lotteries.
strict9 8y ago
This is why the red/blue election map broken down by county is so stark and shocking. I grew up in and still have friends/family in a rural area and there is no optimism for earning a decent living for most people. And this is a sunbelt state with explosive growth in its cities. Can't sympathize with their political views but I do sympathize with wanting to blow the system up and try something different. Things are going to go south real fast if/when the same trend of disappearing jobs starts happening in cities too.
- pm90 8y ago
  > Can't sympathize with their political views but I do sympathize with wanting to blow the system up and try something different. Things are going to go south real fast if/when the same trend of disappearing jobs starts happening in cities too. You shouldn't. They have the choice to pack up and find better jobs and opportunities. Not all city jobs are doctors and engineers; in fact the fastest growing job is wind turbine technicians. America has been through this before; the industrial revolution and then the Service sector industry led to mass migration from rural to Urban areas. And most younger Americans from smaller towns do end up doing just that. I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone that can condone; nigh constantly encourage the kind of cruelty that we see today from the GOP.
  - strict9 8y ago
    >have absolutely no sympathy for anyone that can condone; nigh constantly encourage the kind of cruelty that we see today from the GOP. Believe me, this is why I can't speak with some family/friends from back home. But packing up and moving doesn't boil down to will, cards are stacked against you when you live in a rural area with few opportunities (same is true for high crime neighborhoods in cities). It took me years to escape and it boiled down to getting lucky that I knew someone who left for a medium-sized city and was able to hitch a ride as a temporary roommate, got started waiting tables and taught myself programming at night/on weekends. It's incredibly difficuly to move to a city: unless you are something amazing, employers want local candidates. Landlords want you to have a job before giving you a lease. It's an awful chicken/egg problem that is insurmountable to most.
    - pm90 8y ago
      Life is fundamentally unfair, especially for most human beings, who are born in poorer nations and communities. I'm not discounting the difficulties and very real hardships faced by these people. But I do want to point out that the United States offers a lot of opportunities for economic growth and well being, much more than you can find in most other countries. To not make use of that just sounds too stupid to me. You really can't just keep waiting in your small town and expect things to magically improve. Either find a way to make things work or move on. Or vote for constructive policies. Don't fucking put a sex offender in the Oval Office.
Gibbon1 8y ago
> If society is to function people need to be able to live a reasonable life just being mildly productive. One of my criticisms of neoliberal economics/politics is it doesn't consider stable meaningful jobs that your can support a family on as a necessary output of the economic system.
- sunshinelackof 8y ago
  I'm not an expert in any degree, but it seems that there are plenty of problems out there, just that the only ones being solved cater to investors and wealthy tech-workers. There's no money in improving infrastructure, returning good food to food deserts, teaching school children - or otherwise the things that most would probably agree suggest the success of the society at large. Very likely this is what stakeholder-profits-at-all-costs leads to.
- anonymous5133 8y ago
  Because it factors in the idea that people need to be incentivized to work. If people can free ride on something then they will. I am definitely in that group. If i can have a decent living on social welfare programs then i definitely would not work. Working sucks. I just hate the idea of working or satisfying customer's needs because it represents a master/slave type relationship.
  - sunshinelackof 8y ago
    At least how we organize work today, it sucks tremendously hard. Someone might pretend he likes it, but no one likes waking up at 6am, commuting both ways, and effectively losing half his day doing something he might not enjoy. There's no real reason most work needs to be like that either besides the momentum of the status-quo.

TAForObvReasons 8y ago

In a world where the sum total of productive human labor potential is not needed to sustain the human population, we need to rethink social organization. We should want to encourage productivity improvements, but if people's self worth is tied to their labor, all we do is effectively remove people from society

thatfrenchguy 8y ago

Yeah and if you live in a city in the US and you don’t work in finance/tech/whatever high earning job, you’re forced out. Not so great either.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> if you live in a city in the US and you don’t work in finance/tech/whatever high earning job, you’re forced out I have friends in New York's service industry (bartenders, waiters, et cetera). Breaking in was tough. But once they established themselves, they began doing quite well. Economised with roommates; diligently saved; kept a tight budget and continuously applied to the affordable housing lotteries.

strict9 8y ago

This is why the red/blue election map broken down by county is so stark and shocking. I grew up in and still have friends/family in a rural area and there is no optimism for earning a decent living for most people. And this is a sunbelt state with explosive growth in its cities. Can't sympathize with their political views but I do sympathize with wanting to blow the system up and try something different. Things are going to go south real fast if/when the same trend of disappearing jobs starts happening in cities too.

pm90 8y ago
> Can't sympathize with their political views but I do sympathize with wanting to blow the system up and try something different. Things are going to go south real fast if/when the same trend of disappearing jobs starts happening in cities too. You shouldn't. They have the choice to pack up and find better jobs and opportunities. Not all city jobs are doctors and engineers; in fact the fastest growing job is wind turbine technicians. America has been through this before; the industrial revolution and then the Service sector industry led to mass migration from rural to Urban areas. And most younger Americans from smaller towns do end up doing just that. I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone that can condone; nigh constantly encourage the kind of cruelty that we see today from the GOP.
- strict9 8y ago
  >have absolutely no sympathy for anyone that can condone; nigh constantly encourage the kind of cruelty that we see today from the GOP. Believe me, this is why I can't speak with some family/friends from back home. But packing up and moving doesn't boil down to will, cards are stacked against you when you live in a rural area with few opportunities (same is true for high crime neighborhoods in cities). It took me years to escape and it boiled down to getting lucky that I knew someone who left for a medium-sized city and was able to hitch a ride as a temporary roommate, got started waiting tables and taught myself programming at night/on weekends. It's incredibly difficuly to move to a city: unless you are something amazing, employers want local candidates. Landlords want you to have a job before giving you a lease. It's an awful chicken/egg problem that is insurmountable to most.
  - pm90 8y ago
    Life is fundamentally unfair, especially for most human beings, who are born in poorer nations and communities. I'm not discounting the difficulties and very real hardships faced by these people. But I do want to point out that the United States offers a lot of opportunities for economic growth and well being, much more than you can find in most other countries. To not make use of that just sounds too stupid to me. You really can't just keep waiting in your small town and expect things to magically improve. Either find a way to make things work or move on. Or vote for constructive policies. Don't fucking put a sex offender in the Oval Office.

Gibbon1 8y ago

> If society is to function people need to be able to live a reasonable life just being mildly productive. One of my criticisms of neoliberal economics/politics is it doesn't consider stable meaningful jobs that your can support a family on as a necessary output of the economic system.

sunshinelackof 8y ago
I'm not an expert in any degree, but it seems that there are plenty of problems out there, just that the only ones being solved cater to investors and wealthy tech-workers. There's no money in improving infrastructure, returning good food to food deserts, teaching school children - or otherwise the things that most would probably agree suggest the success of the society at large. Very likely this is what stakeholder-profits-at-all-costs leads to.
anonymous5133 8y ago
Because it factors in the idea that people need to be incentivized to work. If people can free ride on something then they will. I am definitely in that group. If i can have a decent living on social welfare programs then i definitely would not work. Working sucks. I just hate the idea of working or satisfying customer's needs because it represents a master/slave type relationship.
- sunshinelackof 8y ago
  At least how we organize work today, it sucks tremendously hard. Someone might pretend he likes it, but no one likes waking up at 6am, commuting both ways, and effectively losing half his day doing something he might not enjoy. There's no real reason most work needs to be like that either besides the momentum of the status-quo.