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Read the book for the first time last year. I heard from some people that it hadn't aged too well—that it should be viewed as more of a precursor to things like

Read the book for the first time last year. I heard from some people that it hadn't aged too well—that it should be viewed as more of a precursor to things like Snowcrash—but I really loved it. In particular, the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so vivid and disorienting. (Or I guess "hypnagogic", to use a Gibsonian word.) A less talented author would have made it feel rote and computery, whereas this cyberspace felt more like a collective fever dream. And what brilliant world-building! Every page had something strange, intense, and new, from "the long pulse of Zion dub" to resuscitated memories of dead men to the beehive of the Tessier-Ashpool compound. Few works are able to create that all-encompassing sense of weirdness, where every strange thing builds on the previous one while somehow keeping the reader focused on the story. (Last book to successfully do that to me was the Saga series.) It was fascinating to realize just how much of our culture is indebted to Neuromancer. So many games and movies use scenes or characters taken wholesale from the pages. Now if only somebody would do a TV adaptation of the original! (As an aside: after finishing the book, I really enjoyed this artist's take on the characters. It was uncannily close to what I was already picturing in my head: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Qo4Z8 https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Qo4Z8)

pjc50 8y ago
> the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so colorful and enticing. If you like this, you may enjoy Jeff Noon.
- archagon 8y ago
  Vurt? I loved that book so much when I read it a teen! (Reading it a second time didn't entice me quite so much a few years later, and I'm reluctant to read it again as an adult in fear that it'll be more like the second time and not the first.)
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Yes - I also have Nymphomation, Pixel Juice, and Falling out Of Cars. Likewise I should give them a re-read. I've always thought of them as the 90s British rave scene version of cyberpunk.
  - beat 8y ago
    I read it when it came out, when I was 20 I think. I recently re-read it and still greatly enjoyed it. Give it a spin!
pjc50 8y ago
> Now if only somebody would do a TV adaptation of the original! I sadly don't trust anyone including Gibson to do this in a way that doesn't ruin it for me, unfortunately. So much of it is about interiority. On the other hand it's ideal anime source material, where it could sit happily next to GITS. The only approaches that might be viable would be to draw heavily on Mr Robot and Sherlock's overlay techniques. Let cyberspace bleed visibly into the real. (The version I'd make would be the zero-budget BBC version, filmed deliberately on scratchy VHS with badly hand-matted effects, in the corner of a disused post-industrial warehouse with props from a bankrupt Maplins. It would be extremely punk and virtually unwatchable.)
Sangermaine 8y ago
> I heard from some people that it hadn't aged too well Good, you'll know who to avoid in the future. >In particular, the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so vivid and disorienting. (Or I guess "hypnagogic", to use a Gibsonian word.) A less talented author would have made it feel rote and computery, whereas this cyberspace felt more like a collective fever dream. It's because Gibson doesn't come from a technical background (he famously wrote Neuromancer on a typewriter and had never even seen a personal computer at the time), but was a hippie deep into the drug subculture of the time. I think being too into the technical side of things may actually be a hindrance when writing these kinds of books, and that Neuromancer resonated so widely precisely because it wasn't hung up on the details. It didn't need the right descriptions of technology, it needed to evoke the right kind of feeling and look at the right way of interacting with technology.
currymj 8y ago
I agree strongly. His description of what cyberspace looks like is absolutely perfect: "Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation, by children being taught mathematical concepts... A graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data. Like city lights, receding..." I've never seen a visual depiction in any cyberpunk-inspired that came even close to getting it right. They mostly all seem to want giant structures made out of neon blocks.
phobosdeimos 8y ago
I think Neuromancer aged better than a lot of sci fi. Gibson didn't go into technical details, which is a blessing when you deal with early 80s computer tech. Incidentally a lot of cyberpunk feels off in 2018. Nobody seemed to forecast the rise of China.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  In general, a lot of well-known cyberpunk seems to have underestimated governments--their competence, power, longevity, and reach. China features prominently in The Diamond Age as a location, but not as a powerful, cohesive, oppressive, incredibly successful authoritarian government. It's sort of a laughing stock in Snow Crash, and barely present in Neuromancer. Despite its reputation for being darkly cynical, I think we can look back now and see that cyberpunk as a genre was essentially optimistic about the power of computing technology--optimistic that it would indeed radically change power structures, society, and our relationship with governments. Instead what we see today is not that different from this time 100 years ago: super rich oligarchs controlling much of the economy, rising racism and bigotry, authoritarians using new technologies to seize power and splinter their opposition.
  - cfadvan 8y ago
    To be fair, Snow Crash has megacorps, oligarchs like L. Bob Rife and David, racism galore (New South Africa franchlettes anyone?) and the plot is literally all about using tech to seize power and splinter opposition. The whole system of FOQNE’s seems massively geared to cater to populist impulses, with the exception of Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong. It also neatly foresaw the role of self-sustaining media frenzy, increasingly stagnant economic prospects for most, and the resulting insularity and small-mindedness of much of society. It also nailed the gig economy.
- scruffyherder 8y ago
  Are you sure? > "The Chinese," bellowed a drunken Australian, "Chinese bloody invented nerve-splicing. Give me the mainland for a nerve job any day. Fix you right, mate . . ." > "Now that," Case said to his glass, all his bitterness suddenly rising in him like bile, "that is so much bullshit." > The Japanese had already forgotten more neurosurgery than the Chinese had ever known. The black clinics of Chiba were the cutting edge, whole bodies of technique supplanted monthly, and still they couldn’t repair the damage he’d suffered in that Memphis hotel. https://archive.org/stream/NeuromancerWilliamGibson/Neuromancer%20-%20William%20Gibson_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/NeuromancerWilliamGibson/Neuroman...
blacksmith_tb 8y ago
Gibson is a much better prose stylist than most of his SF-writing peers. Neuromancer shows his influences off pretty clearly (Robert Stone, William Burroughs, and a healthy dose of noir a la Hammett and Chandler), but cooks the resulting gumbo into something remarkable.
derReineke 8y ago
The only issue I have with the artwork is that I'm pretty sure Molly is black in the books.

pjc50 8y ago

> the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so colorful and enticing. If you like this, you may enjoy Jeff Noon.

archagon 8y ago
Vurt? I loved that book so much when I read it a teen! (Reading it a second time didn't entice me quite so much a few years later, and I'm reluctant to read it again as an adult in fear that it'll be more like the second time and not the first.)
- pjc50 8y ago
  Yes - I also have Nymphomation, Pixel Juice, and Falling out Of Cars. Likewise I should give them a re-read. I've always thought of them as the 90s British rave scene version of cyberpunk.
- beat 8y ago
  I read it when it came out, when I was 20 I think. I recently re-read it and still greatly enjoyed it. Give it a spin!

pjc50 8y ago

> Now if only somebody would do a TV adaptation of the original! I sadly don't trust anyone including Gibson to do this in a way that doesn't ruin it for me, unfortunately. So much of it is about interiority. On the other hand it's ideal anime source material, where it could sit happily next to GITS. The only approaches that might be viable would be to draw heavily on Mr Robot and Sherlock's overlay techniques. Let cyberspace bleed visibly into the real. (The version I'd make would be the zero-budget BBC version, filmed deliberately on scratchy VHS with badly hand-matted effects, in the corner of a disused post-industrial warehouse with props from a bankrupt Maplins. It would be extremely punk and virtually unwatchable.)

Sangermaine 8y ago

> I heard from some people that it hadn't aged too well Good, you'll know who to avoid in the future. >In particular, the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so vivid and disorienting. (Or I guess "hypnagogic", to use a Gibsonian word.) A less talented author would have made it feel rote and computery, whereas this cyberspace felt more like a collective fever dream. It's because Gibson doesn't come from a technical background (he famously wrote Neuromancer on a typewriter and had never even seen a personal computer at the time), but was a hippie deep into the drug subculture of the time. I think being too into the technical side of things may actually be a hindrance when writing these kinds of books, and that Neuromancer resonated so widely precisely because it wasn't hung up on the details. It didn't need the right descriptions of technology, it needed to evoke the right kind of feeling and look at the right way of interacting with technology.

currymj 8y ago

I agree strongly. His description of what cyberspace looks like is absolutely perfect: "Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation, by children being taught mathematical concepts... A graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data. Like city lights, receding..." I've never seen a visual depiction in any cyberpunk-inspired that came even close to getting it right. They mostly all seem to want giant structures made out of neon blocks.

phobosdeimos 8y ago

I think Neuromancer aged better than a lot of sci fi. Gibson didn't go into technical details, which is a blessing when you deal with early 80s computer tech. Incidentally a lot of cyberpunk feels off in 2018. Nobody seemed to forecast the rise of China.

snowwrestler 8y ago
In general, a lot of well-known cyberpunk seems to have underestimated governments--their competence, power, longevity, and reach. China features prominently in The Diamond Age as a location, but not as a powerful, cohesive, oppressive, incredibly successful authoritarian government. It's sort of a laughing stock in Snow Crash, and barely present in Neuromancer. Despite its reputation for being darkly cynical, I think we can look back now and see that cyberpunk as a genre was essentially optimistic about the power of computing technology--optimistic that it would indeed radically change power structures, society, and our relationship with governments. Instead what we see today is not that different from this time 100 years ago: super rich oligarchs controlling much of the economy, rising racism and bigotry, authoritarians using new technologies to seize power and splinter their opposition.
- cfadvan 8y ago
  To be fair, Snow Crash has megacorps, oligarchs like L. Bob Rife and David, racism galore (New South Africa franchlettes anyone?) and the plot is literally all about using tech to seize power and splinter opposition. The whole system of FOQNE’s seems massively geared to cater to populist impulses, with the exception of Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong. It also neatly foresaw the role of self-sustaining media frenzy, increasingly stagnant economic prospects for most, and the resulting insularity and small-mindedness of much of society. It also nailed the gig economy.
scruffyherder 8y ago
Are you sure? > "The Chinese," bellowed a drunken Australian, "Chinese bloody invented nerve-splicing. Give me the mainland for a nerve job any day. Fix you right, mate . . ." > "Now that," Case said to his glass, all his bitterness suddenly rising in him like bile, "that is so much bullshit." > The Japanese had already forgotten more neurosurgery than the Chinese had ever known. The black clinics of Chiba were the cutting edge, whole bodies of technique supplanted monthly, and still they couldn’t repair the damage he’d suffered in that Memphis hotel. https://archive.org/stream/NeuromancerWilliamGibson/Neuromancer%20-%20William%20Gibson_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/NeuromancerWilliamGibson/Neuroman...

blacksmith_tb 8y ago

Gibson is a much better prose stylist than most of his SF-writing peers. Neuromancer shows his influences off pretty clearly (Robert Stone, William Burroughs, and a healthy dose of noir a la Hammett and Chandler), but cooks the resulting gumbo into something remarkable.

derReineke 8y ago

The only issue I have with the artwork is that I'm pretty sure Molly is black in the books.