4 ms·

History rhymes. American industrialists famously begged, borrowed and stole machine designs from Europe -- Slater the traitor kickstarted the American cotton in

by nimish 8y ago

History rhymes. American industrialists famously begged, borrowed and stole machine designs from Europe -- Slater the traitor kickstarted the American cotton industry. Of course, the lack of foresight of Wall St is legendary! Many companies have traded long term loss for short term gain.

andygrovetheman 8y ago
IP and knowledge was much less valuable in the 19th C industrial economy than it is today. Back then execution and raw materials and access to semiskilled labor was most important. The Chinese (NK, Iranian, Russian) corporate hacks we have seen recently could have a MUCH larger economic effect.
- nimish 8y ago
  Not really. Britain banned textile technicians from leaving the country because textile machinery knowledge was overwhelmingly valuable. Semiconductor IP is not nearly that important.
- imglorp 8y ago
  The problem was recognized at the time, though. The first US patent was in 1790 (a process to make potash), the beginning of the industrial revolution. Of course, now we buy portfolios of patents as an investment backing extortion as a business model, or as bludgeon to slow competition.
- paidleaf 8y ago
  > IP and knowledge was much less valuable in the 19th C industrial economy than it is today. Actually it was far more valuable because it was far rarer and you could do far more with it. With IP you could own/dominate the entire textile market, the entire cotton market, the entire oil market, etc. With IP you could dominate the world's oceans with your navy. It's counterintuitive but IP at the beginning stages was far more important. > The Chinese (NK, Iranian, Russian) corporate hacks we have seen recently could have a MUCH larger economic effect. This is simply not true. The markets today are much larger and far more diverse and the IP space is ridiculous complex, large and diverse. Of course IP theft has a significant economic impact today, but IP theft 200 years had a far greater effect when industries and IP was so limited.
worldengineer 8y ago
You're no better than those that shouts 'but slavery!' for whataboutism. if anything, more insidious. These events happened a couple of hundred years ago. before international laws, before trade organizations, before, well, civility. China broke all the rules TODAY. and is still breaking them.
- chmod775 8y ago
  > China broke all the rules TODAY. and is still breaking them. Speaking about whataboutism... Let's not forget the cases of state-level industrial espionage performed by the NSA against targets such as France (with Germany's help) as well as against Germany itself, which both occurred and came to light within the last 20 years. There's probably more but those are the ones I remember. There's also no indication the NSA has stopped these activities. Unless the the former being revealed by Snowden finally changed anything. Everyone is spying on everyone right now. And why shouldn't they? The internet age has made it much easier than it used to be. You can't demand change and be outraged at other countries' behavior unless you first change your own. At least the Chinese refrain from virtue signaling at the same time. So. In conclusion I don't think this is a case of "whataboutism", but rather a case of "Look who is complaining".

by nimish 8y ago

andygrovetheman 8y ago

IP and knowledge was much less valuable in the 19th C industrial economy than it is today. Back then execution and raw materials and access to semiskilled labor was most important. The Chinese (NK, Iranian, Russian) corporate hacks we have seen recently could have a MUCH larger economic effect.

nimish 8y ago
Not really. Britain banned textile technicians from leaving the country because textile machinery knowledge was overwhelmingly valuable. Semiconductor IP is not nearly that important.
imglorp 8y ago
The problem was recognized at the time, though. The first US patent was in 1790 (a process to make potash), the beginning of the industrial revolution. Of course, now we buy portfolios of patents as an investment backing extortion as a business model, or as bludgeon to slow competition.
paidleaf 8y ago
> IP and knowledge was much less valuable in the 19th C industrial economy than it is today. Actually it was far more valuable because it was far rarer and you could do far more with it. With IP you could own/dominate the entire textile market, the entire cotton market, the entire oil market, etc. With IP you could dominate the world's oceans with your navy. It's counterintuitive but IP at the beginning stages was far more important. > The Chinese (NK, Iranian, Russian) corporate hacks we have seen recently could have a MUCH larger economic effect. This is simply not true. The markets today are much larger and far more diverse and the IP space is ridiculous complex, large and diverse. Of course IP theft has a significant economic impact today, but IP theft 200 years had a far greater effect when industries and IP was so limited.

worldengineer 8y ago

You're no better than those that shouts 'but slavery!' for whataboutism. if anything, more insidious. These events happened a couple of hundred years ago. before international laws, before trade organizations, before, well, civility. China broke all the rules TODAY. and is still breaking them.

chmod775 8y ago
> China broke all the rules TODAY. and is still breaking them. Speaking about whataboutism... Let's not forget the cases of state-level industrial espionage performed by the NSA against targets such as France (with Germany's help) as well as against Germany itself, which both occurred and came to light within the last 20 years. There's probably more but those are the ones I remember. There's also no indication the NSA has stopped these activities. Unless the the former being revealed by Snowden finally changed anything. Everyone is spying on everyone right now. And why shouldn't they? The internet age has made it much easier than it used to be. You can't demand change and be outraged at other countries' behavior unless you first change your own. At least the Chinese refrain from virtue signaling at the same time. So. In conclusion I don't think this is a case of "whataboutism", but rather a case of "Look who is complaining".