4 ms·

> At worst, well, maybe the first with their back against the wall when the corporate takeover comes. What are you talking about?

s-shellfish 8y ago
I'm OP, not your parent commenter, but I do understand the perspective. This is something that is actually occurring, there really is a psychological war going between how much information black box entities have about entities they provide a 'service' for, in how it impacts the experience of living life, the fact that most people have no choice but be connected to the internet (the subject of the linked article). It's a psychological war in that it's an inverted microcosm of the history of discrimination. Instead of just judging people based on some generalized set of superficial details like appearance or a quantitative metric of intelligence, a GPA, resume, etc - a lot of organizations are refining it down to the most seemingly insignificant and 'supposed' trivial details. Which is missing the forest for the trees, even though it may be profitable in the short term. The US has a president that fancies himself a dictator and looks up to / highly respects people like Kim Jong-un and Uncle Xi. It's the cultural and political climate so it's clear there are real reality reasons to show cause for concern. All this stuff influences what people think is acceptable and where to draw the line. It's all background noise information that propagates into models of interpersonal boundaries - what people are willing to tolerate and what they will cry out against. Learned social behavior, etc. It supports fear culture and that is another tool people can use to manipulate and control others. Regardless of whether it actually works, this stuff is the mentality of some people in power. So when I read comments like the parent that replied to my original comment (I'm OP), the point is - guide them out of the conspiracy but understand where it's coming from by describing why it is true while not necessarily being true. Fear culture controls. People who want to control others for any purpose aside from improving the well-being and respecting the autonomy of others are aware of this. There are plenty of existing technologies (look back to the development of advertisements) that exist purely to manipulate emotional state in order to direct behavior, and I have no doubt there are some folks out there looking to refine it down to a precision science. The real front lines come down to, how far will they push it before people 'snap' (and you can see that happening with the US president, because honestly, every intent a 'self' attempts to have on others comes back to affect the individual 'self'). I think that explains his ludicrous behavior in a way that has empathy, because you can tell, all that garbage he has done to others continuously affects his perception on how he sees those around him. The man can't trust anyone except for dictators lately. I don't think there's going to be any kind of corporate takeover aside from corporate rebellion, possibly. Creating a tight association between the government, the media, and corporate interests is too last century. There are some interests that seem to be going in that direction, but it's clearly not all of them.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "Creating a tight association between the government, the media, and corporate interests is too last century" This is how it has been throughout history. Why do you think this is different now?
  - s-shellfish 8y ago
    Computers. https://www.cs.utexas.edu/%7EEWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html https://www.cs.utexas.edu/%7EEWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IYwTO4-j8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IYwTO4-j8
- jtbayly 8y ago
  You said, “People who want to control others for any purpose aside from improving the well-being and respecting the autonomy of others are aware of this.“ But this is precisely the most nefarious type of control. Nothing is more insidious than the conviction that you are controlling others for their own benefit.
  - s-shellfish 8y ago
    When I say that, I mean 'well-being and autonomy' implies listening to people, giving them space and time to find their own self, offering guidance if they request it, affirming they have choice, offering help if they are confused, and sometimes even being confused with them. It's no different from being a parent, a teacher, or a therapist. It doesn't have to be seen as nefarious if it isn't.

s-shellfish 8y ago

I'm OP, not your parent commenter, but I do understand the perspective. This is something that is actually occurring, there really is a psychological war going between how much information black box entities have about entities they provide a 'service' for, in how it impacts the experience of living life, the fact that most people have no choice but be connected to the internet (the subject of the linked article). It's a psychological war in that it's an inverted microcosm of the history of discrimination. Instead of just judging people based on some generalized set of superficial details like appearance or a quantitative metric of intelligence, a GPA, resume, etc - a lot of organizations are refining it down to the most seemingly insignificant and 'supposed' trivial details. Which is missing the forest for the trees, even though it may be profitable in the short term. The US has a president that fancies himself a dictator and looks up to / highly respects people like Kim Jong-un and Uncle Xi. It's the cultural and political climate so it's clear there are real reality reasons to show cause for concern. All this stuff influences what people think is acceptable and where to draw the line. It's all background noise information that propagates into models of interpersonal boundaries - what people are willing to tolerate and what they will cry out against. Learned social behavior, etc. It supports fear culture and that is another tool people can use to manipulate and control others. Regardless of whether it actually works, this stuff is the mentality of some people in power. So when I read comments like the parent that replied to my original comment (I'm OP), the point is - guide them out of the conspiracy but understand where it's coming from by describing why it is true while not necessarily being true. Fear culture controls. People who want to control others for any purpose aside from improving the well-being and respecting the autonomy of others are aware of this. There are plenty of existing technologies (look back to the development of advertisements) that exist purely to manipulate emotional state in order to direct behavior, and I have no doubt there are some folks out there looking to refine it down to a precision science. The real front lines come down to, how far will they push it before people 'snap' (and you can see that happening with the US president, because honestly, every intent a 'self' attempts to have on others comes back to affect the individual 'self'). I think that explains his ludicrous behavior in a way that has empathy, because you can tell, all that garbage he has done to others continuously affects his perception on how he sees those around him. The man can't trust anyone except for dictators lately. I don't think there's going to be any kind of corporate takeover aside from corporate rebellion, possibly. Creating a tight association between the government, the media, and corporate interests is too last century. There are some interests that seem to be going in that direction, but it's clearly not all of them.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"Creating a tight association between the government, the media, and corporate interests is too last century" This is how it has been throughout history. Why do you think this is different now?
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  Computers. https://www.cs.utexas.edu/%7EEWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html https://www.cs.utexas.edu/%7EEWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IYwTO4-j8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IYwTO4-j8
jtbayly 8y ago
You said, “People who want to control others for any purpose aside from improving the well-being and respecting the autonomy of others are aware of this.“ But this is precisely the most nefarious type of control. Nothing is more insidious than the conviction that you are controlling others for their own benefit.
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  When I say that, I mean 'well-being and autonomy' implies listening to people, giving them space and time to find their own self, offering guidance if they request it, affirming they have choice, offering help if they are confused, and sometimes even being confused with them. It's no different from being a parent, a teacher, or a therapist. It doesn't have to be seen as nefarious if it isn't.