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Which? apparently is a paid service. That I find morally questionable - telling you that some are literally deadly and then asking for money to tell you which o

Which? apparently is a paid service. That I find morally questionable - telling you that some are literally deadly and then asking for money to tell you which ones are.

Johnny555 8y ago
Don't take chances with a blacklist, use a whitelist since counterfeit products can change brands overnight: https://familylivingtoday.com/best-carbon-monoxide-detectors/ https://familylivingtoday.com/best-carbon-monoxide-detectors... or https://www.consumerreports.org/products/carbon-monoxide-detectors/ratings-overview/ https://www.consumerreports.org/products/carbon-monoxide-det... (but you've got to pay for that one) Or, simple rule of thumb, stick with one of the major brands like Kidde or First Alert (other reputable brands like Nest should be safe too). Or better, use more than one major brand/model just in case there's a design flaw in one of them. If you don't want to pay for Consumer Reports: their top rated standalone detector is the First Alert CO615 ($30)
- YokoZar 8y ago
  Sticking with a major brand won't protect you from literal counterfeit goods, only from shady brands. Amazon also has a counterfeit branded goods problem.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    True, but it'll protect you from the cheap knockoffs that are the subject of this article. I bought mine from Home Depot, who I hope has enough control over the supply chain from the manufacturer that they are legit. But counterfeit products is another reason to go with multiple brands/models, you're less likely to receive perfect counterfeit replicas of each type.
Hates_ 8y ago
You do not have to pay money to see which ones are deadly. You can see all the safety alert information on which ones are unsafe on the product listings[1] as well as individual product pages[2]. I've been involved in the product safety work at Which? and they've gone to great pains to make sure that this was publically and easily available information. They are also running a huge campaign on product safety[3]. [1] https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors [2] https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/unbranded-and-dangerous-carbon-monoxide-alarm https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/un... [3] https://campaigns.which.co.uk/product-safety/ https://campaigns.which.co.uk/product-safety/
- mrleiter 8y ago
  Oh, my bad. Thank you! :)
  - Hates_ 8y ago
    But, you've made me see something I had not spotted before in that you _don't_ see what is unsafe for free on our "don't buy" pages[1]. I have raised this right now with the team! [1] https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/article/recommendations/which-dont-buy-carbon-monoxide-detectors https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/ar...
    - makomk 8y ago
      Not only that, the Don't Buy page actively asks people to pay up in order to find out which carbon monoxide detectors are deadly: "Compared with Best Buy carbon monoxide detectors, the Don't Buy alarms that we've named and shamed on this page just can’t be relied upon to detect the gas and sound the alarm. In our tests, the Don’t Buys failed to detect carbon monoxide in more than one-in-three of our tests. This adds up to 26 failures out of 72 tests. By contrast, the Best Buys passed all 312 of our carbon monoxide gas tests. The potentially deadly CO alarms all claim to have passed the relevant EU safety standard, EN 50291. But repeated failures in our lab tests – which mirror those of the safety standard – lead us to doubt that they actually did. And we’re as concerned about several lookalike models as we are about the three models that failed our tests. To find out which models are Don't Buys, as well as our Best Buy carbon monoxide detectors, sign up for a £1 trial to Which?"
Symbiote 8y ago
Which doesn't have any advertising or sponsorship, which keeps their reviews and tests independent.
mprev 8y ago
More often, Which? tests different laundry detergents and tells its members how they perform. Morally, as a member funded organisation, they’re in better shape than the alternatives that take payment from the manufacturers in exchange for a stamp of approval. As you can see in this CO detector case, when there’s something more serious than whether it gets your whites whiter than white, they share it with the press and make a campaign around it.

Which? apparently is a paid service. That I find morally questionable - telling you that some are literally deadly and then asking for money to tell you which ones are.

Johnny555 8y ago

Don't take chances with a blacklist, use a whitelist since counterfeit products can change brands overnight: https://familylivingtoday.com/best-carbon-monoxide-detectors/ https://familylivingtoday.com/best-carbon-monoxide-detectors... or https://www.consumerreports.org/products/carbon-monoxide-detectors/ratings-overview/ https://www.consumerreports.org/products/carbon-monoxide-det... (but you've got to pay for that one) Or, simple rule of thumb, stick with one of the major brands like Kidde or First Alert (other reputable brands like Nest should be safe too). Or better, use more than one major brand/model just in case there's a design flaw in one of them. If you don't want to pay for Consumer Reports: their top rated standalone detector is the First Alert CO615 ($30)

YokoZar 8y ago
Sticking with a major brand won't protect you from literal counterfeit goods, only from shady brands. Amazon also has a counterfeit branded goods problem.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  True, but it'll protect you from the cheap knockoffs that are the subject of this article. I bought mine from Home Depot, who I hope has enough control over the supply chain from the manufacturer that they are legit. But counterfeit products is another reason to go with multiple brands/models, you're less likely to receive perfect counterfeit replicas of each type.

Hates_ 8y ago

You do not have to pay money to see which ones are deadly. You can see all the safety alert information on which ones are unsafe on the product listings[1] as well as individual product pages[2]. I've been involved in the product safety work at Which? and they've gone to great pains to make sure that this was publically and easily available information. They are also running a huge campaign on product safety[3]. [1] https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors [2] https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/unbranded-and-dangerous-carbon-monoxide-alarm https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/un... [3] https://campaigns.which.co.uk/product-safety/ https://campaigns.which.co.uk/product-safety/

mrleiter 8y ago
Oh, my bad. Thank you! :)
- Hates_ 8y ago
  But, you've made me see something I had not spotted before in that you _don't_ see what is unsafe for free on our "don't buy" pages[1]. I have raised this right now with the team! [1] https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/article/recommendations/which-dont-buy-carbon-monoxide-detectors https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/carbon-monoxide-detectors/ar...
  - makomk 8y ago
    Not only that, the Don't Buy page actively asks people to pay up in order to find out which carbon monoxide detectors are deadly: "Compared with Best Buy carbon monoxide detectors, the Don't Buy alarms that we've named and shamed on this page just can’t be relied upon to detect the gas and sound the alarm. In our tests, the Don’t Buys failed to detect carbon monoxide in more than one-in-three of our tests. This adds up to 26 failures out of 72 tests. By contrast, the Best Buys passed all 312 of our carbon monoxide gas tests. The potentially deadly CO alarms all claim to have passed the relevant EU safety standard, EN 50291. But repeated failures in our lab tests – which mirror those of the safety standard – lead us to doubt that they actually did. And we’re as concerned about several lookalike models as we are about the three models that failed our tests. To find out which models are Don't Buys, as well as our Best Buy carbon monoxide detectors, sign up for a £1 trial to Which?"

Symbiote 8y ago

Which doesn't have any advertising or sponsorship, which keeps their reviews and tests independent.

mprev 8y ago

More often, Which? tests different laundry detergents and tells its members how they perform. Morally, as a member funded organisation, they’re in better shape than the alternatives that take payment from the manufacturers in exchange for a stamp of approval. As you can see in this CO detector case, when there’s something more serious than whether it gets your whites whiter than white, they share it with the press and make a campaign around it.