4 ms·

A Reputation-Laundering Firm That Ruined Its Own Reputation

83 points by iamben 8y ago

tgp2 8y ago
PR firms/people don’t die. They just reincarnate.
- bartread 8y ago
  Tell that to Max Clifford.
  - bartread 8y ago
    Again, not sure why this is getting downvoted. He was a publicist with a terrible secret that, when exposed, led to the destruction of his reputation, his business, and ultimately very likely contributed to his death.
- JulianMorrison 8y ago
  Try killing them harder?
- nimbird 8y ago
  There has been a massive resurgence in racial incitement on South African social media in the last few months. What do out-of-work PR manipulators do when the wish to seek vengeance? Here are two examples of incitement: https://twitter.com/edmorechauke/status/1010085732915011589 https://twitter.com/edmorechauke/status/1010085732915011589 https://twitter.com/pluckynemes/status/989586280529977344 https://twitter.com/pluckynemes/status/989586280529977344 Here's an SA Indian journalist talking about a death threat she received on Twitter after a sudden upsurge in anti-Indian sentiment: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/ferial-haffajee/ferial-you-deserve-a-bullet-in-the-head_a_23461346/ https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/ferial-haffajee/ferial-you-... One of South Africa's cellphone networks has allowed free Twitter access, meaning that large numbers of poorly educated people, in a violent country with limited law enforcement capability, are open to violent incitement. Forget theoretical discussions about fake news and free speech, unless Twitter and FB develop a rapid response mechanism for neutering this kind of thing, it's just a matter of time before someone gets attacked or killed in real life.
- flyinghamster 8y ago
  Kind of reminds me of trolls in NetHack, especially since trolling is their business.
  - Pulcinella 8y ago
    I believe that predates the modern usage of “troll.” Trolls regenerating is an old fantasy trope. https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/103146/where-did-the-idea-that-trolls-can-regenerate-come-from https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/103146/where-did-t...
sorokod 8y ago
A bit like a virus that is so lethal to it's host that it extinguishes itself.
davibu 8y ago
PR is just another word for Propaganda, isn'it ?
- projectramo 8y ago
  In one very vague sense, marketing, communication, pr and propaganda are all cousins. But in a more serious sense, if you just out and out lie, and repeat the falsehood, I would count that as propaganda. If you simply put a spin on it but don't disavow actual facts, I would put that down in PR. In Handmaid's Tale, when Fred goes to Canada he engages in a lot of PR. But when he disavows actual practices, he slides into propaganda.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Rjevski 8y ago
And nothing of value was lost.
tothrowaway_ 8y ago
Whilst I enjoyed the story as told; the one where two rich men conduct a boardroom battle whilst democratic institutions abroad become collateral damage; I prefer the version where a fledgling democracy with a brutal past fights for its life by using everything at its disposal to keep the forces of dark at bay. That story is only hinted at in the article, but almost all South Africans everywhere who could do anything to defend democracy in this story absolutely did so, regardless of skin tone. As an example, take Peter Hain (the South African who became an English politician) who put Bell Pottinger under pressure through the House of Lords, or Johann Rupert who used his corporate clout everywhere he could. Consider how South African journalists risked a lot to dump incriminating evidence into the public domain or the citizens who went out and protested week after week, Fighting evil requires constant vigilance and lot of actual feet on the ground.
blindwatchmaker 8y ago
This part of the article stuck out: > “As we have known from the start, we are in the middle of a civil war with the Guptas and allies on one side, and Johann Rupert and others on the other side. More mud will inevitably be thrown. However, it is difficult to turn down such a large retainer.” I feel like the blowback the Guptas and their PR flunkies got was more because of the fact that this was a power struggle between different obligarch factions than because of wrongdoing (although obviously they are guilty of that as well). If the Guptas/Pottinger had targeted people without massive wealth and clout among global and European elite circles we might not be getting behind the scenes exposures like these. I think we live in era where ordinary people and interests that don't represent the wealthy have no ability to hit back against character assasination and PR campaigns, and with no one left to go after the future is going to be obligarchs targetting each other, a bit like the late stage Roman republic.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

83 points by iamben 8y ago

tgp2 8y ago

PR firms/people don’t die. They just reincarnate.

bartread 8y ago
Tell that to Max Clifford.
- bartread 8y ago
  Again, not sure why this is getting downvoted. He was a publicist with a terrible secret that, when exposed, led to the destruction of his reputation, his business, and ultimately very likely contributed to his death.
JulianMorrison 8y ago
Try killing them harder?
nimbird 8y ago
There has been a massive resurgence in racial incitement on South African social media in the last few months. What do out-of-work PR manipulators do when the wish to seek vengeance? Here are two examples of incitement: https://twitter.com/edmorechauke/status/1010085732915011589 https://twitter.com/edmorechauke/status/1010085732915011589 https://twitter.com/pluckynemes/status/989586280529977344 https://twitter.com/pluckynemes/status/989586280529977344 Here's an SA Indian journalist talking about a death threat she received on Twitter after a sudden upsurge in anti-Indian sentiment: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/ferial-haffajee/ferial-you-deserve-a-bullet-in-the-head_a_23461346/ https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/ferial-haffajee/ferial-you-... One of South Africa's cellphone networks has allowed free Twitter access, meaning that large numbers of poorly educated people, in a violent country with limited law enforcement capability, are open to violent incitement. Forget theoretical discussions about fake news and free speech, unless Twitter and FB develop a rapid response mechanism for neutering this kind of thing, it's just a matter of time before someone gets attacked or killed in real life.
flyinghamster 8y ago
Kind of reminds me of trolls in NetHack, especially since trolling is their business.
- Pulcinella 8y ago
  I believe that predates the modern usage of “troll.” Trolls regenerating is an old fantasy trope. https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/103146/where-did-the-idea-that-trolls-can-regenerate-come-from https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/103146/where-did-t...

sorokod 8y ago

A bit like a virus that is so lethal to it's host that it extinguishes itself.

davibu 8y ago

PR is just another word for Propaganda, isn'it ?

projectramo 8y ago
In one very vague sense, marketing, communication, pr and propaganda are all cousins. But in a more serious sense, if you just out and out lie, and repeat the falsehood, I would count that as propaganda. If you simply put a spin on it but don't disavow actual facts, I would put that down in PR. In Handmaid's Tale, when Fred goes to Canada he engages in a lot of PR. But when he disavows actual practices, he slides into propaganda.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Rjevski 8y ago

And nothing of value was lost.

tothrowaway_ 8y ago

Whilst I enjoyed the story as told; the one where two rich men conduct a boardroom battle whilst democratic institutions abroad become collateral damage; I prefer the version where a fledgling democracy with a brutal past fights for its life by using everything at its disposal to keep the forces of dark at bay. That story is only hinted at in the article, but almost all South Africans everywhere who could do anything to defend democracy in this story absolutely did so, regardless of skin tone. As an example, take Peter Hain (the South African who became an English politician) who put Bell Pottinger under pressure through the House of Lords, or Johann Rupert who used his corporate clout everywhere he could. Consider how South African journalists risked a lot to dump incriminating evidence into the public domain or the citizens who went out and protested week after week, Fighting evil requires constant vigilance and lot of actual feet on the ground.

blindwatchmaker 8y ago

This part of the article stuck out: > “As we have known from the start, we are in the middle of a civil war with the Guptas and allies on one side, and Johann Rupert and others on the other side. More mud will inevitably be thrown. However, it is difficult to turn down such a large retainer.” I feel like the blowback the Guptas and their PR flunkies got was more because of the fact that this was a power struggle between different obligarch factions than because of wrongdoing (although obviously they are guilty of that as well). If the Guptas/Pottinger had targeted people without massive wealth and clout among global and European elite circles we might not be getting behind the scenes exposures like these. I think we live in era where ordinary people and interests that don't represent the wealthy have no ability to hit back against character assasination and PR campaigns, and with no one left to go after the future is going to be obligarchs targetting each other, a bit like the late stage Roman republic.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]