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> We often don't need those nice properties in single use products, yet we use it anyway because we don't pay due respect to the long term consequences. Those

> We often don't need those nice properties in single use products, yet we use it anyway because we don't pay due respect to the long term consequences. Those properties are also used in place of other materials. Gears in devices that were once metal are now plastic which works OK for w while but it's not even close to the durability of metal. The result is the device with plastic gears fails and a new one is made to replace it, maybe two or three times in a decade. Meanwhile a device with metal gears may last decades. How many vacuum cleaners, washers, dryers, microwave ovens from the 1970s and 1980s are still in use versus the same devices from the 1990s/2000s? Modular devices that can be updated to suit whims of fashion. And technology which use durable metal parts would make more sense and cut down on plastic waste plus the sheer volume of old failed devices.

joecot 8y ago
> How many vacuum cleaners, washers, dryers, microwave ovens from the 1970s and 1980s are still in use versus the same devices from the 1990s/2000s? I don't doubt that metal is more durable than plastic, but there's some survivor's bias in that statement. We usually think of 70s and 80s appliances being more durable because we see people still using them. The truth is that we've always had a mix of cheaply made vs durable products, and the cheaply made stuff broke years ago and was replaced. We're comparing our cheapest made products of now to the most durably made products of decades ago.
- JohnSully 8y ago
  Older stuff generally had poorer tolerances and in some cases barely worked. However when it did it was easy to fix and was generally designed with a large margin. Nowadays we make things with a lot more precision and the mechanics will go a lot longer without needing repair. However if anything goes wrong the whole thing needs replacement as it's not designed for repair.
sgnelson 8y ago
Sure, and I agree that many products aren't built like they once were (with or without survivorship bias, as well as the ability to fix older products is way easier than newer products) but, the cost of metal gears versus plastic gears, for instance, was much much higher. (now with Metal Injection molding, the prices would be closer, but the MiM are still more expensive.) For better or worse, people are almost always going to choose cheaper products.

joecot 8y ago

> How many vacuum cleaners, washers, dryers, microwave ovens from the 1970s and 1980s are still in use versus the same devices from the 1990s/2000s? I don't doubt that metal is more durable than plastic, but there's some survivor's bias in that statement. We usually think of 70s and 80s appliances being more durable because we see people still using them. The truth is that we've always had a mix of cheaply made vs durable products, and the cheaply made stuff broke years ago and was replaced. We're comparing our cheapest made products of now to the most durably made products of decades ago.

JohnSully 8y ago
Older stuff generally had poorer tolerances and in some cases barely worked. However when it did it was easy to fix and was generally designed with a large margin. Nowadays we make things with a lot more precision and the mechanics will go a lot longer without needing repair. However if anything goes wrong the whole thing needs replacement as it's not designed for repair.

sgnelson 8y ago

Sure, and I agree that many products aren't built like they once were (with or without survivorship bias, as well as the ability to fix older products is way easier than newer products) but, the cost of metal gears versus plastic gears, for instance, was much much higher. (now with Metal Injection molding, the prices would be closer, but the MiM are still more expensive.) For better or worse, people are almost always going to choose cheaper products.