8 ms·

I predict it won't be long before using non-biodegradeable plastic in any packaging or short-lived product will be banned. It's outrageous that everything is pa

I predict it won't be long before using non-biodegradeable plastic in any packaging or short-lived product will be banned. It's outrageous that everything is packaged in material that will almost certainly not be properly recycled, and end up in landfill or the ocean.

r00fus 8y ago
Bioplastics / biodegradable plastics are not a panacea: https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html
- vkou 8y ago
  > Unfortunately, not all bioplastics compost easily or completely and some leave toxic residues or plastic fragments behind. Some will break down only at high temperatures in industrial-scale, municipal composters or digesters, or in biologically active landfills (also called bioreactor landfills), not on ordinary home compost heaps or in conventional landfills. This is not that big a problem. The solution to it is municipal composting, instead of chucking it in your back yard. Bioplastics aren't a panacea, but biodegradable ones are. We want durable materials that don't biodegrade. That's why we use plastics. Ideally, there should be a way - some catalyst, or some environment in which they do degrade. Industrial composting of biodegradable plastics is just that. Unfortunately, it does not really solve the microfiber problem. We can't make clothing out of biodegradable plastic.
  - r00fus 8y ago
    I take it you didn't read the link. The problems with "biodegradable" is that often times it's not 100% and will result in particulate and toxins. If someone is composting they'd prefer not have toxins in there - goal is to grow stuff using the compost. So how do you get rid of this stuff cleanly?
agumonkey 8y ago
For a while I've been scavenging devices. So I have my eyes on people's waste quite regularly.. I'm thinking of starting a recycling factory. If people just threw all their waste in my yard I'd be rich. - Tons of cardboard - Tons of batteries - Tons of partially working devices - etc etc The thing is, 'you' buy the packaging most of the time. People are stupid, they just follow the stream of 'nice' from nice looking store, to nice looking brand name, to nice looking package. I'm sure if you made everything in thin cardboard with minimal markings, they'd be angry.
- heurist 8y ago
  In my area there's a market around finding used items at Goodwill outlets, fixing them up, and reselling through Craigslist/Offer Up/neighbors/etc. My wife and her mother find a lot of useful, inexpensive things at Goodwill outlets, including nice furniture, kitchen utensils, decoration, and electronics I now use daily. As someone who used to shop by hunting down brand name products in big box stores when I needed anything, the realization that used, nearly-free items are both readily available still functional was surprisingly profound.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    That's exactly my conclusion. With a bit of time, friends/family (the more the merrier in a way), you can have a shit ton of things for a few bucks. Another thing is that after a while I started to realize that sometimes I spend more hours on fixing than buying a new one. Also I felt I could just be a customer for someone invested into a whatever store (social feelings) and I could find my own spot to make more use of my time. /me back repurposing 'dead' laptop batteries with a 1$ li-ion charging pcb :)
- rwallace 8y ago
  > I'm sure if you made everything in thin cardboard with minimal markings, they'd be angry. If only some things had minimal packaging, those vendors would be a competitive disadvantage, but if everything had minimal packaging, maybe consumers would be angry for five minutes, but then they'd get used to it. In other words, this is exactly the kind of coordination problem that governments were invented to solve.

r00fus 8y ago

Bioplastics / biodegradable plastics are not a panacea: https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html

vkou 8y ago
> Unfortunately, not all bioplastics compost easily or completely and some leave toxic residues or plastic fragments behind. Some will break down only at high temperatures in industrial-scale, municipal composters or digesters, or in biologically active landfills (also called bioreactor landfills), not on ordinary home compost heaps or in conventional landfills. This is not that big a problem. The solution to it is municipal composting, instead of chucking it in your back yard. Bioplastics aren't a panacea, but biodegradable ones are. We want durable materials that don't biodegrade. That's why we use plastics. Ideally, there should be a way - some catalyst, or some environment in which they do degrade. Industrial composting of biodegradable plastics is just that. Unfortunately, it does not really solve the microfiber problem. We can't make clothing out of biodegradable plastic.
- r00fus 8y ago
  I take it you didn't read the link. The problems with "biodegradable" is that often times it's not 100% and will result in particulate and toxins. If someone is composting they'd prefer not have toxins in there - goal is to grow stuff using the compost. So how do you get rid of this stuff cleanly?

agumonkey 8y ago

For a while I've been scavenging devices. So I have my eyes on people's waste quite regularly.. I'm thinking of starting a recycling factory. If people just threw all their waste in my yard I'd be rich. - Tons of cardboard - Tons of batteries - Tons of partially working devices - etc etc The thing is, 'you' buy the packaging most of the time. People are stupid, they just follow the stream of 'nice' from nice looking store, to nice looking brand name, to nice looking package. I'm sure if you made everything in thin cardboard with minimal markings, they'd be angry.

heurist 8y ago
In my area there's a market around finding used items at Goodwill outlets, fixing them up, and reselling through Craigslist/Offer Up/neighbors/etc. My wife and her mother find a lot of useful, inexpensive things at Goodwill outlets, including nice furniture, kitchen utensils, decoration, and electronics I now use daily. As someone who used to shop by hunting down brand name products in big box stores when I needed anything, the realization that used, nearly-free items are both readily available still functional was surprisingly profound.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  That's exactly my conclusion. With a bit of time, friends/family (the more the merrier in a way), you can have a shit ton of things for a few bucks. Another thing is that after a while I started to realize that sometimes I spend more hours on fixing than buying a new one. Also I felt I could just be a customer for someone invested into a whatever store (social feelings) and I could find my own spot to make more use of my time. /me back repurposing 'dead' laptop batteries with a 1$ li-ion charging pcb :)
rwallace 8y ago
> I'm sure if you made everything in thin cardboard with minimal markings, they'd be angry. If only some things had minimal packaging, those vendors would be a competitive disadvantage, but if everything had minimal packaging, maybe consumers would be angry for five minutes, but then they'd get used to it. In other words, this is exactly the kind of coordination problem that governments were invented to solve.