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Getting into even MORE nuance. Having worked on federated login with Sony, I suspect this "account taint" behavior is because Epic is using Sony's payment plat

by madrox 8y ago

Getting into even MORE nuance. Having worked on federated login with Sony, I suspect this "account taint" behavior is because Epic is using Sony's payment platform for loot crates. It's against Sony's policy to be able to pay for things to be used outside their ecosystem...mostly because that opens up a whole can of legal worms. It's for the same reason Spotify subscriptions use in-app purchase but you put your credit card into Uber and Lyft. Allowing cross-play means the in-game items you paid for with loot crates should transfer. Aha, HN devs say, why don't you just carry a bit with those items that were paid for and hide them on other platforms? This is, more or less, how Blizzard deals with this. However, if that's not how you set it up out of the gate, that can be a painful thing to do retroactively. That's why I feel it's a bit disingenuous to heap ALL the hate on Sony. Epic could possibly work around this. That said, everything about the account is cosmetic-related. You'll have to start all over getting your John Wick skin...but how big of a deal is that really? It doesn't affect gameplay. That's probably what Epic is thinking.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
>You'll have to start all over getting your John Wick skin... But you can't. It would not only cost money to, but it is also time gated, and once that gate closes you can't open it back up. No new account can have a John Wick skin because it requires buying something no longer for sale and then completing challenges that are no longer part of the game.
wyldfire 8y ago
>I suspect this "account taint" behavior is because Epic is using Sony's payment platform for loot crates. But Sony's response says "We also offer Fortnite cross-play support with PC, Mac, iOS, and Android devices". It seems like consoles in their target market are specifically excluded for portability here.
- madrox 8y ago
  Interesting, I didn't see that. In that case, it makes the account lockout case even weaker. There really is no technical reason for it. However, that makes it Epic's issue, since they clearly have means of handling it.
developer12 8y ago
I think its insane how many comments are trying to deflect from the issue. Sony can and should allow users to bring their accounts and purchases with them to and from their platform. > It's against Sony's policy to be able to pay for things to be used outside their ecosystem...mostly because that opens up a whole can of legal worms. I can purchase skins on PC and use them on PS4. So that blows up the legal argument. This feels like a weird distortion because its gaming related. For example Apple allows their users to bring kindle books purchased outside their platform even though they didn't get a 30% cut of sales. We would be roasting Apple right now if they were locking it down like Sony is.
- madrox 8y ago
  > For example Apple allows their users to bring kindle books purchased outside their platform even though they didn't get a 30% cut of sales They also don't allow you to purchase books within their ecosystem. On PC, you're using Epic's payment platform. Same way you can pay for your kindle books on the web in Amazon's ecosystem and then read them on an iPad. My point is that weird technical and legal hurdles, when followed lazily, can lead to anti-consumer practices. I don't think it's deflecting from the issue to discuss the underlying technical and legal constraints. It's Hacker News. If you want to rage against Sony for not allowing cross-play go to Polygon.
  - developer12 8y ago
    > On PC, you're using Epic's payment platform. I don't see how this is different from Xbox/iOS/PC/Switch all sharing digital purchases. Sony is the only platform that has "legal hurdles" preventing this? > My point is that weird technical and legal hurdles I don't think their are any technical challenges unless you insist digital licenses must be sandboxed. Epic has accidentally removed the technical blocks previously. > It's Hacker News. If you want to rage against Sony for not allowing cross-play go to Polygon. I'm sorry if it feels like I'm raging but I strongly believe users need to fight for fair digital licensing. Sandboxing purchases feels like a fine technical workaround but I'd prefer platform owners change policy to match users expectations.
fixmycode 8y ago
It's weirder than that, you aren't really paying for the items directly from Sony's platform when you play on the PS4, you're buying V-bucks, Fortnite's currency, and that's what you use to buy your items. For one, the solution should be keeping two different V-Buck wallets: one for Sony, and another for everyone else, legal issue solved, moving on. So, because it's not happening, there must be something we're missing here...
reificator 8y ago
> You'll have to start all over getting your John Wick skin... My understanding, having not played Fortnite: * Some skins (like John Wick) are time-limited and purchase-limited and achievement-limited. In other words you have to purchase the Battle Pass for a given season and complete all the challenges before the time runs out. John Wick skins are past that window, nothing can be done about them now. * Other skins are just time and money limited. I'm told that you can log in and there will be only a single skin for sale. But really, discussing whether it's a big deal[0] is missing what's important here. Neither Sony nor Epic adequately warned players that this would happen. That's the meat of the issue right there. Again, I've not played Fortnite, only seen it in the Epic launcher when I dust off Unreal Engine 4. [0]: Do I really need to say it is a big deal that players who poured money into their account are now being told to start from scratch?

by madrox 8y ago

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago

>You'll have to start all over getting your John Wick skin... But you can't. It would not only cost money to, but it is also time gated, and once that gate closes you can't open it back up. No new account can have a John Wick skin because it requires buying something no longer for sale and then completing challenges that are no longer part of the game.

wyldfire 8y ago

>I suspect this "account taint" behavior is because Epic is using Sony's payment platform for loot crates. But Sony's response says "We also offer Fortnite cross-play support with PC, Mac, iOS, and Android devices". It seems like consoles in their target market are specifically excluded for portability here.

madrox 8y ago
Interesting, I didn't see that. In that case, it makes the account lockout case even weaker. There really is no technical reason for it. However, that makes it Epic's issue, since they clearly have means of handling it.

developer12 8y ago

I think its insane how many comments are trying to deflect from the issue. Sony can and should allow users to bring their accounts and purchases with them to and from their platform. > It's against Sony's policy to be able to pay for things to be used outside their ecosystem...mostly because that opens up a whole can of legal worms. I can purchase skins on PC and use them on PS4. So that blows up the legal argument. This feels like a weird distortion because its gaming related. For example Apple allows their users to bring kindle books purchased outside their platform even though they didn't get a 30% cut of sales. We would be roasting Apple right now if they were locking it down like Sony is.

madrox 8y ago
> For example Apple allows their users to bring kindle books purchased outside their platform even though they didn't get a 30% cut of sales They also don't allow you to purchase books within their ecosystem. On PC, you're using Epic's payment platform. Same way you can pay for your kindle books on the web in Amazon's ecosystem and then read them on an iPad. My point is that weird technical and legal hurdles, when followed lazily, can lead to anti-consumer practices. I don't think it's deflecting from the issue to discuss the underlying technical and legal constraints. It's Hacker News. If you want to rage against Sony for not allowing cross-play go to Polygon.
- developer12 8y ago
  > On PC, you're using Epic's payment platform. I don't see how this is different from Xbox/iOS/PC/Switch all sharing digital purchases. Sony is the only platform that has "legal hurdles" preventing this? > My point is that weird technical and legal hurdles I don't think their are any technical challenges unless you insist digital licenses must be sandboxed. Epic has accidentally removed the technical blocks previously. > It's Hacker News. If you want to rage against Sony for not allowing cross-play go to Polygon. I'm sorry if it feels like I'm raging but I strongly believe users need to fight for fair digital licensing. Sandboxing purchases feels like a fine technical workaround but I'd prefer platform owners change policy to match users expectations.

fixmycode 8y ago

It's weirder than that, you aren't really paying for the items directly from Sony's platform when you play on the PS4, you're buying V-bucks, Fortnite's currency, and that's what you use to buy your items. For one, the solution should be keeping two different V-Buck wallets: one for Sony, and another for everyone else, legal issue solved, moving on. So, because it's not happening, there must be something we're missing here...

reificator 8y ago

> You'll have to start all over getting your John Wick skin... My understanding, having not played Fortnite: * Some skins (like John Wick) are time-limited and purchase-limited and achievement-limited. In other words you have to purchase the Battle Pass for a given season and complete all the challenges before the time runs out. John Wick skins are past that window, nothing can be done about them now. * Other skins are just time and money limited. I'm told that you can log in and there will be only a single skin for sale. But really, discussing whether it's a big deal[0] is missing what's important here. Neither Sony nor Epic adequately warned players that this would happen. That's the meat of the issue right there. Again, I've not played Fortnite, only seen it in the Epic launcher when I dust off Unreal Engine 4. [0]: Do I really need to say it is a big deal that players who poured money into their account are now being told to start from scratch?