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Sure, there's a policy, but who cares? People need to quit meddling in the affairs of others. If a relationship is consensual what's the issue? If we're spendi

Sure, there's a policy, but who cares? People need to quit meddling in the affairs of others. If a relationship is consensual what's the issue? If we're spending a significant part of our waking hours at work, it should be a baked in assumption that at some point, some coworkers are going to end up in a romantic relationship together. Hell, the majority of my significant romantic relationships started out as consensual workplace flirting. It should only ever be an issue when that relationship causes trouble for the business.

gkoberger 8y ago
There's a few reasons. Don't forget, it wasn't just two equal coworkers: it was the most powerful man in the company. First, he agreed – it was in his contract he couldn't do it. Second, oftentimes it's hard to tell how consensual it is when there's a large imbalance of power. Was it completely consensual? Maybe. But companies have a no-tolerance policy because it's hard to tell, and you don't want managers going around making subordinates uncomfortable, or employees taking advantage of managers. Third, he now has an explicit bias toward a single employee. He doesn't deserve to be blacklisted and grouped in with sexual harassers, however he did violate his contract and brought his fate at Intel upon himself.
- dkrich 8y ago
  I thought it was reported that the actual affair occurred long ago well before he was the CEO but is only coming to light now. This seems to be a way to oust him without having to admit that he wasn't doing a good job as CEO.
klodolph 8y ago
I’ve seen these relationships cause major problems. Bob had a relationship with Alice, and now couldn’t fire her because it would look like quid pro quo (not getting into details here). Alice was the worst manager I have ever worked for, and many of her direct reports were quitting without notice (including me). Even though what happened between Alice and Bob was consensual, it made it impossible for Bob to do his job. Alice and Bob were both fired. You can’t effectively distinguish between a “good relationship” and a “bad relationship” so a blanket rule makes the most sense. The issue is not necessarily about whether the relationship itself is ethical, but how it appears to observers and if it affects the organization.
- kanox 8y ago
  > Bob had a relationship with Alice, and now couldn’t fire her because it would look like quid pro quo. Alice was the worst manager I have ever worked for This seems like a problem caused by relationship policy and optics rather than the relationship itself. Doesn't Bob have a manager that can get involved to explicitly get rid of Alice?
  - klodolph 8y ago
    > This seems like a problem caused by relationship policy and optics rather than the relationship itself. Yes, that's what I mean when I said, "The issue is not necessarily about whether the relationship itself is ethical, but how it appears to observers and if it affects the organization." If you need to get Bob's manager, Carol, involved to manage Alice when things go poorly, it means that you should have had Carol managing Alice from the beginning. This is the only way I've ever seen it work well. Alice is under Bob in the org chart but all of her performance reviews are done by Carol, and Carol signs Alice's pay sheets, et cetera. I've seen this particular case happen a few times where Alice is Bob's daughter or where Alice and Bob were married before they came to the organization. This is not possible when Bob is the CEO.
- rglover 8y ago
  Blanket rules completely ignore human behavior, though. If two people want to sleep with each other, nature doesn't really care much about your rulebook (or outside opinions, which don't matter if leadership is keeping office drama in check). It's almost a virtual certainty that at some point in time, rules be damned, employees will hook up.

gkoberger 8y ago

There's a few reasons. Don't forget, it wasn't just two equal coworkers: it was the most powerful man in the company. First, he agreed – it was in his contract he couldn't do it. Second, oftentimes it's hard to tell how consensual it is when there's a large imbalance of power. Was it completely consensual? Maybe. But companies have a no-tolerance policy because it's hard to tell, and you don't want managers going around making subordinates uncomfortable, or employees taking advantage of managers. Third, he now has an explicit bias toward a single employee. He doesn't deserve to be blacklisted and grouped in with sexual harassers, however he did violate his contract and brought his fate at Intel upon himself.

dkrich 8y ago
I thought it was reported that the actual affair occurred long ago well before he was the CEO but is only coming to light now. This seems to be a way to oust him without having to admit that he wasn't doing a good job as CEO.

klodolph 8y ago

I’ve seen these relationships cause major problems. Bob had a relationship with Alice, and now couldn’t fire her because it would look like quid pro quo (not getting into details here). Alice was the worst manager I have ever worked for, and many of her direct reports were quitting without notice (including me). Even though what happened between Alice and Bob was consensual, it made it impossible for Bob to do his job. Alice and Bob were both fired. You can’t effectively distinguish between a “good relationship” and a “bad relationship” so a blanket rule makes the most sense. The issue is not necessarily about whether the relationship itself is ethical, but how it appears to observers and if it affects the organization.

kanox 8y ago
> Bob had a relationship with Alice, and now couldn’t fire her because it would look like quid pro quo. Alice was the worst manager I have ever worked for This seems like a problem caused by relationship policy and optics rather than the relationship itself. Doesn't Bob have a manager that can get involved to explicitly get rid of Alice?
- klodolph 8y ago
  > This seems like a problem caused by relationship policy and optics rather than the relationship itself. Yes, that's what I mean when I said, "The issue is not necessarily about whether the relationship itself is ethical, but how it appears to observers and if it affects the organization." If you need to get Bob's manager, Carol, involved to manage Alice when things go poorly, it means that you should have had Carol managing Alice from the beginning. This is the only way I've ever seen it work well. Alice is under Bob in the org chart but all of her performance reviews are done by Carol, and Carol signs Alice's pay sheets, et cetera. I've seen this particular case happen a few times where Alice is Bob's daughter or where Alice and Bob were married before they came to the organization. This is not possible when Bob is the CEO.
rglover 8y ago
Blanket rules completely ignore human behavior, though. If two people want to sleep with each other, nature doesn't really care much about your rulebook (or outside opinions, which don't matter if leadership is keeping office drama in check). It's almost a virtual certainty that at some point in time, rules be damned, employees will hook up.