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Just saying they exist doesn't make them exist. Good art vs. bad art isn't an argument against postmodernism. Whenever I meet people who claim there is an obje

Just saying they exist doesn't make them exist. Good art vs. bad art isn't an argument against postmodernism. Whenever I meet people who claim there is an objective truth I always ask them to give any examples. So far I have not met anyone who can come up with an objective claim that isn't merely basing that on a frame of reference which can be deconstructed or shown to be based on a set of apriori assumptions itself.

zxcmx 8y ago
I am reminded of the “brick in the face” argument against solopsism. Tell me whack more about your whack frame of reference... I see postmodernism and extreme relativism as a sort of awesome stage of society where we get to make up reality because we are freed from mundane concerns like knowing where our water comes from or where our sh%t gets flushed to. It is quite wonderful that many many people get the luxury of never even being curious about these things. Meanwhile, the engineers, doctors, carers, labourers (I am missing a lot out here) who ultimately keep people alive tend to have quite definite opinions about critical aspects of reality. Granted these are still not objective truths because all experience is subjective. All I can say is that a sophist who believes that rent is not an objective truth is nonetheless likely to find themselves (subjectively) on the streets if they don’t pay it.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  With regards to rent. That's a human construct not something that exist out there that I cannot ignore. I could ignore it and if I am strong enough I can take it away from you. So rent is in fact highly subjective. Not the definition but the reality of it.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  Buddhist philosophy reached some of the same conclusions as postmodernism have. But don't forget that the fact most of our early engineering advanced were done by philosophers who had the time to ponder and tinker.
  - zxcmx 8y ago
    Yeah I tried to argue over several edits that people seem less objective about their own pain or hunger but realised I backed myself into a corner :)
RikNieu 8y ago
> So far I have not met anyone who can come up with an objective claim that isn't merely basing that on a frame of reference which can be deconstructed or shown to be based on a set of apriori assumptions itself. I'm not too familiar with postmodern theory, would you explain this please? Say I state that you posted the above sentence, and that that is an objective truth. How would you break that down to assumptions?
- ThomPete 8y ago
  Well, first of all, how do you know I posted it? What does it mean to post something? How does what I posted manifest itself in reality if you aren't there to interpret my post. Those are the kind of questions you would ask to start pulling it all apart. Those questions would be absurd in a normal discussion but in philosophy, they are important questions because they help us unravel our assumptions about the reality we often take for granted.
  - RikNieu 8y ago
    So postmodernism is to ignore conventional context? If it's absurd in regular situations, of what use is it in daily life?
    - ThomPete 8y ago
      That's not the job of philosophy. I think you referring to the more popularized life-philosophy which is quite different. Postmodernism doesn't ignore conventional context it inquires about the solidity of it. The job of philosophy is to ask questions not find answers.
      - RikNieu 8y ago
        > The job of philosophy is to ask questions not find answers But the purpose of a question is to seek an answer. It's very definition implies this... I dunno, on the surface this just appears like formalised intentional abstruseness to me. A formalised method to intentional miss the point. But thanks for the replies, I appreciate it! This is rather interesting. Do you have some recommended links or books? I want to delve into this a bit more.

zxcmx 8y ago

I am reminded of the “brick in the face” argument against solopsism. Tell me whack more about your whack frame of reference... I see postmodernism and extreme relativism as a sort of awesome stage of society where we get to make up reality because we are freed from mundane concerns like knowing where our water comes from or where our sh%t gets flushed to. It is quite wonderful that many many people get the luxury of never even being curious about these things. Meanwhile, the engineers, doctors, carers, labourers (I am missing a lot out here) who ultimately keep people alive tend to have quite definite opinions about critical aspects of reality. Granted these are still not objective truths because all experience is subjective. All I can say is that a sophist who believes that rent is not an objective truth is nonetheless likely to find themselves (subjectively) on the streets if they don’t pay it.

ThomPete 8y ago
With regards to rent. That's a human construct not something that exist out there that I cannot ignore. I could ignore it and if I am strong enough I can take it away from you. So rent is in fact highly subjective. Not the definition but the reality of it.
ThomPete 8y ago
Buddhist philosophy reached some of the same conclusions as postmodernism have. But don't forget that the fact most of our early engineering advanced were done by philosophers who had the time to ponder and tinker.
- zxcmx 8y ago
  Yeah I tried to argue over several edits that people seem less objective about their own pain or hunger but realised I backed myself into a corner :)

RikNieu 8y ago

> So far I have not met anyone who can come up with an objective claim that isn't merely basing that on a frame of reference which can be deconstructed or shown to be based on a set of apriori assumptions itself. I'm not too familiar with postmodern theory, would you explain this please? Say I state that you posted the above sentence, and that that is an objective truth. How would you break that down to assumptions?

ThomPete 8y ago
Well, first of all, how do you know I posted it? What does it mean to post something? How does what I posted manifest itself in reality if you aren't there to interpret my post. Those are the kind of questions you would ask to start pulling it all apart. Those questions would be absurd in a normal discussion but in philosophy, they are important questions because they help us unravel our assumptions about the reality we often take for granted.
- RikNieu 8y ago
  So postmodernism is to ignore conventional context? If it's absurd in regular situations, of what use is it in daily life?
  - ThomPete 8y ago
    That's not the job of philosophy. I think you referring to the more popularized life-philosophy which is quite different. Postmodernism doesn't ignore conventional context it inquires about the solidity of it. The job of philosophy is to ask questions not find answers.
    - RikNieu 8y ago
      > The job of philosophy is to ask questions not find answers But the purpose of a question is to seek an answer. It's very definition implies this... I dunno, on the surface this just appears like formalised intentional abstruseness to me. A formalised method to intentional miss the point. But thanks for the replies, I appreciate it! This is rather interesting. Do you have some recommended links or books? I want to delve into this a bit more.