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> Rust is an even more extreme example. You might get extra safety, but at significant development cost. This is not the indisputable fact that you seem to be

> Rust is an even more extreme example. You might get extra safety, but at significant development cost. This is not the indisputable fact that you seem to be portraying this as. I've written similar amounts of Rust and Python, and it is much much easier and faster for me to write robust software in Rust than in Python. Python might let me get to a prototype more quickly in some cases, but the amount of time spent on maintenance after the fact puts Rust very clearly in the lead in my experience. There's no doubt that Rust's learning curve is much much steeper than Python's, but this is a very different thing that saying something general about overall development cost.

hellofunk 8y ago
Do you not find that lack of a REPL-oriented workflow inhibits productivity? I sure do. I love C++ and don't use Rust beyond hobby interest, but being able to do things interactively is definitely an advantage in languages like Python.
- burntsushi 8y ago
  Is a REPL nice to have? Yes, absolutely! It's a nice quality of life enhancement. But in terms of development cost, it's _barely_ a blip.
hellofunk 8y ago
> let me get to a prototype more quickly The nice thing about gradual typing is if you get to a proof-of-concept, you can then layer in types for static analyzers to make it more robust. Sure it's not Rust-level safety, but it works for very demanding projects. Heck, all of Instagram is built on Python, and they use the static type analysis in their workflow just like this. It's just a compromise everyone needs to find on their own or for a specific project.
- burntsushi 8y ago
  You're kind of missing my point. I'm specifically not talking about gradual typing. I'm calling your claims about development cost into question. I'm personally not a huge fan of gradual typing. I've tried it, and it didn't work well for both technical and social reasons. But I'm not here to argue that point.

hellofunk 8y ago

Do you not find that lack of a REPL-oriented workflow inhibits productivity? I sure do. I love C++ and don't use Rust beyond hobby interest, but being able to do things interactively is definitely an advantage in languages like Python.

burntsushi 8y ago
Is a REPL nice to have? Yes, absolutely! It's a nice quality of life enhancement. But in terms of development cost, it's _barely_ a blip.

hellofunk 8y ago

> let me get to a prototype more quickly The nice thing about gradual typing is if you get to a proof-of-concept, you can then layer in types for static analyzers to make it more robust. Sure it's not Rust-level safety, but it works for very demanding projects. Heck, all of Instagram is built on Python, and they use the static type analysis in their workflow just like this. It's just a compromise everyone needs to find on their own or for a specific project.

burntsushi 8y ago
You're kind of missing my point. I'm specifically not talking about gradual typing. I'm calling your claims about development cost into question. I'm personally not a huge fan of gradual typing. I've tried it, and it didn't work well for both technical and social reasons. But I'm not here to argue that point.