8 ms·

What the Airline Knows About the Guy in Seat 14C

32 points by petethomas 8y ago

mrlatinos 8y ago
Paywall
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't do this here. Check out these links for why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html Users usually post workarounds in the threads, as they did above.
el-patron 8y ago
https://outline.com/X8xWw2 https://outline.com/X8xWw2 in case you want to read the full article
- masteruvpuppetz 8y ago
  blocked in my org. Do you have any other link? :$
  - neonate 8y ago
    http://archive.is/Vgxw3 http://archive.is/Vgxw3
winningcontinue 8y ago
Privacy invasion and feeling creepy at the airline level is alright. I registered for the flight and paid for it through my ticket checkout. In addition, I'm usually part of their loyalty program when I fly. What I don't appreciate is what happened to me at a high end mall while on vacation in Spain. Walked into the store, the sales person smiled and me and called me by my name. I never met her before and that type of interaction was quite jarring. I was left wondering where have I seen this person for a bit, striking up a friendly conversation to jog my memory. Then she explained that a camera had captured and recognized me through my face on her screen. Creepy.
- toxicFork 8y ago
  Honest question, are there any groups or categories of people who would appreciate that kind of mall experience?
  - everdev 8y ago
    I think even those desperate for connection or attention might not even enjoy it. But from the seller's perspective it's a conversation starter and gets your attention. Sales at kiosks are a numbers game and the more people you talk to the more sales you'll make.
- everdev 8y ago
  That would not sit well with me and would feel like an invasion of privacy. But if I have an account with an airline and purchase a ticket, I'd feel pleased if they tried to make a connection in an authentic and kind way by relating to me with my name or with my beverage history. Probably not my past flight history though.
- travbrack 8y ago
  Any idea where the face image data came from?
- Animats 8y ago
  People will get used to it. There was a time when American Express phone agents knew what customer was calling, but wouldn't mention their name until the customer did. The agent calling the customer by name was considered creepy. Now it's normal.
  - peteretep 8y ago
    Unlikely, in the EU, because who the hell is going to consent to that in line with GDPR?
    - alfredallan1 8y ago
      I think it’d be a lot of (evil) fun to form a crowdfunded entity with the sole purpose of suing companies that egregiously violate privacy norms. Given the level of support for the GDPR in many quarters, I think funding goals can be easily reached. Some lawyers might also want to jump on the bandwagon and make themselves a name (and profit).
toomanybeersies 8y ago
I don't like strangers using my name. Police do that, debt collectors do that. Flight attendants and waiters should not do that. I think it's an information asymmetry thing. I don't like it when people know more about me than the other way round, or at least don't like it when they make it obvious. And specifically with birthdays. I'd be pretty annoyed if flight attendants started wishing me happy birthday, I hate it when people do that. I like to keep my birthday a private event. I barely tolerate work buying me a cake and singing happy birthday, and that's just because I get cake and everyone else in the office enjoys the whole thing.
- flashman 8y ago
  It's okay if they call me Mr [Surname] but not if they use my first name. Probably some weird respect/familiarity thing.
  - andai 8y ago
    >That's Mister Surname to you!
- orbitingpluto 8y ago
  I deliberately didn't sign up for my workplace birthday planning calendar. I chipped in for others birthdays but didn't feel any need to get my turn. So they made mine April 1st. Touché.
  - 5555624 8y ago
    Ours was kept in a Microsoft Word file, so there was no automatic error checking. For years, I got away with telling them it was "February 30th." I'd rattle it off so easily, no one questioned it. We got a new admin assistant who caught it and then went through personnel files to put the list together.
    - dalore 8y ago
      Nice. I hope you went with Feb 29th after that which does exist. Means you only get the annoying birthday greetings once every four years.
cperciva 8y ago
I think the biggest problem here is one not even mentioned: What happens when the information is wrong? Passengers swapping seats isn't all that uncommon -- I've done it many times to allow families to sit together -- but the computers aren't going to know that has happened. On a recent flight I swapped seats with my girlfriend -- she wanted the window -- and the service director was clearly flummoxed by the fact that the man in front of her was "Elena" and the woman sitting next to me was "Colin". (I'm guessing that they've been told that they should never assume genders based on names, but she could clearly tell something was off.) In that particular case, the confusion was quickly remedied; but I can only imagine the embarrassment which would ensue if flight attendants start singing happy birthday to the wrong passenger.
- user5454 8y ago
  We had a flight once where they had assigned my then six year old daughter to a seat on a separate row from the rest of us (me, wife and son) so naturally my wife took that seat and let me sit with the kids. This was very confusing to the flight attendant. She was like "You need to sit in your seat!" to my wife and as we explained the error by the airline, she scolded us and said "but kids can't sit by themselves!" Uhm, no that's what we fixed... Rest of the flight she looked at us suspiciously as if we were up to something.
brownbat 8y ago
I wish United would spend less time trying to learn my name and more time actually understanding my complaints about their website. Like about their online security questions. I don't have a particular favorite vegetable, and even if I did, a drop down with a handful of options is a silly way to secure an account.
- jasonkostempski 8y ago
  They are. Soon you'll log in with your face, a flashier silly way to secure an account.
moviuro 8y ago
GDPR should protect (at least) European citizens from this. If I share my info, it should only be used for necessary things, such as: * sending my ticket to my place * checking my identity at check-in And then, addressing me as "Mr. Smith in seat 14C" or asking me what I want to drink really isn't a problem. Checking if I have connecting flights can be done without knowing my name. So, as GDPR dictates: everything else must be opt-in.
- karthikb 8y ago
  > Checking if I have connecting flights can be done without knowing my name Not always. Many airlines (for example, American Airlines) will protect your connection even if you've purchased two separate tickets. And they'll do this across their entire OneWorld alliance of airlines, not just within the company. But unless you have added a frequent flier number, the airline needs multiple matching information (Name, DOB) to be able to make the link between your two reservations automatically. Otherwise, they would be unable to proactively rebook, hold the connecting plane, have someone meet you at the gate to rush you to the next gate, etc.
  - moviuro 8y ago
    ...or they could add a checkbox "I have a connecting flight [flight number]".
    - thisone 8y ago
      flights (at least mine) are often cancelled and rescheduled by the airline after purchase. Without actively being able to track an individual flyer between the connecting flights, just setting a connecting flight number (along with date and time) wouldn't work.
      - moviuro 8y ago
        > [...] > Sorry for the inconvenience ... Note that you will no longer be able to connect to the flight you selected [AF1234], please follow the link to reschedule with [Air France] https://brokenconnection/?nogo=UA4321&connection=AF1234 https://brokenconnection/?nogo=UA4321&connection=AF1234 > [...]
FearNotDaniel 8y ago
IMHO whether or not this is creepy depends a great deal on past experiences with the same company, whether or not I have built up a relationship of trust with them, and have come to expect (based on experience, not advertising) good service that respects me as a passenger and genuinely values my experience as much as how much more profit they can squeeze out of me. Hence, if anyone from Lufthansa/Austrian/Eurowings, or the ground staff at Heathrow T2 used my name, acknowledged my birthday or otherwise used the personal information that I already know they have about me, I would probably be quite pleased and delighted. The trust I already have in that brand would increase. Exactly the same behaviour from anyone connected with Stansted/Gatwick/BA/Ryanair/Easyjet would likely make me feel angry and invaded because all those companies already make me feel like a target, not a guest. So my negative trust would go further into the red.
minpur 8y ago
This is quite a generic rant about airlines trying to make sense of passenger data. Nothing related to seat 14C. I mostly pay more and reserve the 12/13 row seats (emergency seats) because of better leg space. I’ve never had a hostess budge me with personal details.

32 points by petethomas 8y ago

mrlatinos 8y ago

Paywall

dang 8y ago
Please don't do this here. Check out these links for why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html Users usually post workarounds in the threads, as they did above.

el-patron 8y ago

https://outline.com/X8xWw2 https://outline.com/X8xWw2 in case you want to read the full article

masteruvpuppetz 8y ago
blocked in my org. Do you have any other link? :$
- neonate 8y ago
  http://archive.is/Vgxw3 http://archive.is/Vgxw3

winningcontinue 8y ago

Privacy invasion and feeling creepy at the airline level is alright. I registered for the flight and paid for it through my ticket checkout. In addition, I'm usually part of their loyalty program when I fly. What I don't appreciate is what happened to me at a high end mall while on vacation in Spain. Walked into the store, the sales person smiled and me and called me by my name. I never met her before and that type of interaction was quite jarring. I was left wondering where have I seen this person for a bit, striking up a friendly conversation to jog my memory. Then she explained that a camera had captured and recognized me through my face on her screen. Creepy.

toxicFork 8y ago
Honest question, are there any groups or categories of people who would appreciate that kind of mall experience?
- everdev 8y ago
  I think even those desperate for connection or attention might not even enjoy it. But from the seller's perspective it's a conversation starter and gets your attention. Sales at kiosks are a numbers game and the more people you talk to the more sales you'll make.
everdev 8y ago
That would not sit well with me and would feel like an invasion of privacy. But if I have an account with an airline and purchase a ticket, I'd feel pleased if they tried to make a connection in an authentic and kind way by relating to me with my name or with my beverage history. Probably not my past flight history though.
travbrack 8y ago
Any idea where the face image data came from?
Animats 8y ago
People will get used to it. There was a time when American Express phone agents knew what customer was calling, but wouldn't mention their name until the customer did. The agent calling the customer by name was considered creepy. Now it's normal.
- peteretep 8y ago
  Unlikely, in the EU, because who the hell is going to consent to that in line with GDPR?
  - alfredallan1 8y ago
    I think it’d be a lot of (evil) fun to form a crowdfunded entity with the sole purpose of suing companies that egregiously violate privacy norms. Given the level of support for the GDPR in many quarters, I think funding goals can be easily reached. Some lawyers might also want to jump on the bandwagon and make themselves a name (and profit).

toomanybeersies 8y ago

I don't like strangers using my name. Police do that, debt collectors do that. Flight attendants and waiters should not do that. I think it's an information asymmetry thing. I don't like it when people know more about me than the other way round, or at least don't like it when they make it obvious. And specifically with birthdays. I'd be pretty annoyed if flight attendants started wishing me happy birthday, I hate it when people do that. I like to keep my birthday a private event. I barely tolerate work buying me a cake and singing happy birthday, and that's just because I get cake and everyone else in the office enjoys the whole thing.

flashman 8y ago
It's okay if they call me Mr [Surname] but not if they use my first name. Probably some weird respect/familiarity thing.
- andai 8y ago
  >That's Mister Surname to you!
orbitingpluto 8y ago
I deliberately didn't sign up for my workplace birthday planning calendar. I chipped in for others birthdays but didn't feel any need to get my turn. So they made mine April 1st. Touché.
- 5555624 8y ago
  Ours was kept in a Microsoft Word file, so there was no automatic error checking. For years, I got away with telling them it was "February 30th." I'd rattle it off so easily, no one questioned it. We got a new admin assistant who caught it and then went through personnel files to put the list together.
  - dalore 8y ago
    Nice. I hope you went with Feb 29th after that which does exist. Means you only get the annoying birthday greetings once every four years.

cperciva 8y ago

I think the biggest problem here is one not even mentioned: What happens when the information is wrong? Passengers swapping seats isn't all that uncommon -- I've done it many times to allow families to sit together -- but the computers aren't going to know that has happened. On a recent flight I swapped seats with my girlfriend -- she wanted the window -- and the service director was clearly flummoxed by the fact that the man in front of her was "Elena" and the woman sitting next to me was "Colin". (I'm guessing that they've been told that they should never assume genders based on names, but she could clearly tell something was off.) In that particular case, the confusion was quickly remedied; but I can only imagine the embarrassment which would ensue if flight attendants start singing happy birthday to the wrong passenger.

user5454 8y ago
We had a flight once where they had assigned my then six year old daughter to a seat on a separate row from the rest of us (me, wife and son) so naturally my wife took that seat and let me sit with the kids. This was very confusing to the flight attendant. She was like "You need to sit in your seat!" to my wife and as we explained the error by the airline, she scolded us and said "but kids can't sit by themselves!" Uhm, no that's what we fixed... Rest of the flight she looked at us suspiciously as if we were up to something.

brownbat 8y ago

I wish United would spend less time trying to learn my name and more time actually understanding my complaints about their website. Like about their online security questions. I don't have a particular favorite vegetable, and even if I did, a drop down with a handful of options is a silly way to secure an account.

jasonkostempski 8y ago
They are. Soon you'll log in with your face, a flashier silly way to secure an account.

moviuro 8y ago

GDPR should protect (at least) European citizens from this. If I share my info, it should only be used for necessary things, such as: * sending my ticket to my place * checking my identity at check-in And then, addressing me as "Mr. Smith in seat 14C" or asking me what I want to drink really isn't a problem. Checking if I have connecting flights can be done without knowing my name. So, as GDPR dictates: everything else must be opt-in.

karthikb 8y ago
> Checking if I have connecting flights can be done without knowing my name Not always. Many airlines (for example, American Airlines) will protect your connection even if you've purchased two separate tickets. And they'll do this across their entire OneWorld alliance of airlines, not just within the company. But unless you have added a frequent flier number, the airline needs multiple matching information (Name, DOB) to be able to make the link between your two reservations automatically. Otherwise, they would be unable to proactively rebook, hold the connecting plane, have someone meet you at the gate to rush you to the next gate, etc.
- moviuro 8y ago
  ...or they could add a checkbox "I have a connecting flight [flight number]".
  - thisone 8y ago
    flights (at least mine) are often cancelled and rescheduled by the airline after purchase. Without actively being able to track an individual flyer between the connecting flights, just setting a connecting flight number (along with date and time) wouldn't work.
    - moviuro 8y ago
      > [...] > Sorry for the inconvenience ... Note that you will no longer be able to connect to the flight you selected [AF1234], please follow the link to reschedule with [Air France] https://brokenconnection/?nogo=UA4321&connection=AF1234 https://brokenconnection/?nogo=UA4321&connection=AF1234 > [...]

FearNotDaniel 8y ago

IMHO whether or not this is creepy depends a great deal on past experiences with the same company, whether or not I have built up a relationship of trust with them, and have come to expect (based on experience, not advertising) good service that respects me as a passenger and genuinely values my experience as much as how much more profit they can squeeze out of me. Hence, if anyone from Lufthansa/Austrian/Eurowings, or the ground staff at Heathrow T2 used my name, acknowledged my birthday or otherwise used the personal information that I already know they have about me, I would probably be quite pleased and delighted. The trust I already have in that brand would increase. Exactly the same behaviour from anyone connected with Stansted/Gatwick/BA/Ryanair/Easyjet would likely make me feel angry and invaded because all those companies already make me feel like a target, not a guest. So my negative trust would go further into the red.

minpur 8y ago

This is quite a generic rant about airlines trying to make sense of passenger data. Nothing related to seat 14C. I mostly pay more and reserve the 12/13 row seats (emergency seats) because of better leg space. I’ve never had a hostess budge me with personal details.