4 ms·

> keep kids, parents & teacher in and the rest of the public out. Well, is that really what schools are supposed to be? It seems like schools have an institut

by jMyles 8y ago

> keep kids, parents & teacher in and the rest of the public out. Well, is that really what schools are supposed to be? It seems like schools have an institutional identity which is indistinguishable from a prison or military base. I'm not sure that I want schools to be hermetically sealed from the rest of society. I think I prefer that they be much more open and intermingled with their communities.

mschuster91 8y ago
> Well, is that really what schools are supposed to be? Guess that's the reality in a country with roughly one school shooting a week. As usual for US politics, the fix doesn't even go anywhere near the sources (a lack of gun control). > I think I prefer that they be much more open and intermingled with their communities. Hmm. Honestly I'm not sure how this could be done in a productive way, and that with threats like shooters and pedophiles not even being in scope. Having random quacks peddle kids and their parents with crap like "alternative medicine", anti-vaxx ideology, creationist theory or religious fundamentalism of any kind (no matter if Scientology, hardcore evangelicals or salafist/other radical Islamists) is already a huge problem, no need to further enlarge it. And unlike with guns it's more difficult here to fight the actual problem given the fundamental human right to free speech.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  "As usual for US politics, the fix doesn't even go anywhere near the sources (a lack of gun control)." The lack of gun control is not the source. The source is people having a desire to kill children in the first place. We can address the specific manifestation of that problem (by enacting tighter controls on how guns may be acquired - something for which I'm very much in favor), but these people can and will find other ways to kill on a large scale (homemade explosives, for example) unless we actually address the mental health issues that are the actual sources.
  - jMyles 8y ago
    This is a beautiful comment. I think it's worth taking time to imagine (and gasp, even empathize with) the incredible pain that must fester inside the minds of people who do these horrific things. It's so inhumane to say, "oh well, as long as they don't have guns, everything is swell."
    - andai 8y ago
      If you can stomach it, you don't have to imagine, you can read their own words. http://www.acolumbinesite.com/diary.php http://www.acolumbinesite.com/diary.php https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1173808-elliot-rodger-manifesto.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1173808-elliot-rodge...
- gowld 8y ago
  Do people kill people, or do guns kill people? Wouldn't gun detectors be more useful than face-detectors? Face-detectors aren't "first-time school-shooter detectors". If you think that children don't belong as a part of society as whole, what society do you have anymore? You believe that children should only be exposed to government indoctrination, and no other human communication? That's... radical.
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > You believe that children should only be exposed to government indoctrination, and no other human communication? That's... radical. For "other human communication" there's time after school. As for "government indoctrination", yes, I am aware of the potential consequences especially when government is taken over by religious nutjobs... but on the other hand, seeing the damage that stuff like teaching kids "creationism" in schools already causes, I don't want religious extremists any nearer to kids than they already are.
- Zak 8y ago
  Since the perpetrators of school shootings, at least the mass shootings that make the news, are usually students, I'm not sure viewing the general public as a threat has much value in stopping them. Child molesters too, tend to be adults with officially-sanctioned access to children rather than random strangers.
gowld 8y ago
Written like someone who's seen Ponyo. http://mayersononanimation.blogspot.com/2009/08/pondering-ponyo.html http://mayersononanimation.blogspot.com/2009/08/pondering-po...
Havoc 8y ago
>Well, is that really what schools are supposed to be? Ideally no. In the real world definitely. It serves as a safe space for kids & everything else is secondary. I've actually been on the receiving side of this: Returned to my Alma mater high school & security wouldn't let me in because I couldn't provide a substantial reason for being there. (I just wanted to walk around my old school) Fair enough - if I was a parent of a kid that's exactly what I'd want: a reasonably high hurdle to keep strangers away from largely unsupervised kids.

by jMyles 8y ago

mschuster91 8y ago

> Well, is that really what schools are supposed to be? Guess that's the reality in a country with roughly one school shooting a week. As usual for US politics, the fix doesn't even go anywhere near the sources (a lack of gun control). > I think I prefer that they be much more open and intermingled with their communities. Hmm. Honestly I'm not sure how this could be done in a productive way, and that with threats like shooters and pedophiles not even being in scope. Having random quacks peddle kids and their parents with crap like "alternative medicine", anti-vaxx ideology, creationist theory or religious fundamentalism of any kind (no matter if Scientology, hardcore evangelicals or salafist/other radical Islamists) is already a huge problem, no need to further enlarge it. And unlike with guns it's more difficult here to fight the actual problem given the fundamental human right to free speech.

yellowapple 8y ago
"As usual for US politics, the fix doesn't even go anywhere near the sources (a lack of gun control)." The lack of gun control is not the source. The source is people having a desire to kill children in the first place. We can address the specific manifestation of that problem (by enacting tighter controls on how guns may be acquired - something for which I'm very much in favor), but these people can and will find other ways to kill on a large scale (homemade explosives, for example) unless we actually address the mental health issues that are the actual sources.
- jMyles 8y ago
  This is a beautiful comment. I think it's worth taking time to imagine (and gasp, even empathize with) the incredible pain that must fester inside the minds of people who do these horrific things. It's so inhumane to say, "oh well, as long as they don't have guns, everything is swell."
  - andai 8y ago
    If you can stomach it, you don't have to imagine, you can read their own words. http://www.acolumbinesite.com/diary.php http://www.acolumbinesite.com/diary.php https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1173808-elliot-rodger-manifesto.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1173808-elliot-rodge...
gowld 8y ago
Do people kill people, or do guns kill people? Wouldn't gun detectors be more useful than face-detectors? Face-detectors aren't "first-time school-shooter detectors". If you think that children don't belong as a part of society as whole, what society do you have anymore? You believe that children should only be exposed to government indoctrination, and no other human communication? That's... radical.
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > You believe that children should only be exposed to government indoctrination, and no other human communication? That's... radical. For "other human communication" there's time after school. As for "government indoctrination", yes, I am aware of the potential consequences especially when government is taken over by religious nutjobs... but on the other hand, seeing the damage that stuff like teaching kids "creationism" in schools already causes, I don't want religious extremists any nearer to kids than they already are.
Zak 8y ago
Since the perpetrators of school shootings, at least the mass shootings that make the news, are usually students, I'm not sure viewing the general public as a threat has much value in stopping them. Child molesters too, tend to be adults with officially-sanctioned access to children rather than random strangers.

gowld 8y ago

Written like someone who's seen Ponyo. http://mayersononanimation.blogspot.com/2009/08/pondering-ponyo.html http://mayersononanimation.blogspot.com/2009/08/pondering-po...

Havoc 8y ago

>Well, is that really what schools are supposed to be? Ideally no. In the real world definitely. It serves as a safe space for kids & everything else is secondary. I've actually been on the receiving side of this: Returned to my Alma mater high school & security wouldn't let me in because I couldn't provide a substantial reason for being there. (I just wanted to walk around my old school) Fair enough - if I was a parent of a kid that's exactly what I'd want: a reasonably high hurdle to keep strangers away from largely unsupervised kids.