2 ms·

I see a lot of folks who speak like libertarian-minded young men jumping up and down about how the CPSC action is, like, the stupidest thing ever. I don't recal

I see a lot of folks who speak like libertarian-minded young men jumping up and down about how the CPSC action is, like, the stupidest thing ever. I don't recall seeing anyone who identified as working in an emergency room or doctor's office saying so. On the other hand, I do recall seeing Youtube videos of young males literally putting these magnets in their mouth to emulate tongue piercings, etc.

romwell 8y ago
You can same the same thing about Tide pods, and yet we don't have a nationwide bad of similar products. The question is not about whether these magnets can be dangerous if ingested. The ridiculousness of CPSC here is that they wouldn't allow the sale of magnets under any conditions whatsoever, putting them into a category more dangerous than guns, explosives, and military weapons. As for the dangers, there are statistics out there showing that a response beyond sticking a warning label is disproportionate, considering the history of regulating consumer products, many of which are highly lethal (e.g. Tide pods and other household chemicals).
- marshray 8y ago
  Tide pods are not actively marketed as toys, they are indeed marketed as household chemicals. I agree CPSC should not be able to ban the sale of magnets in general, but it seems reasonable to me that they be able regulate how products are marketed. Bare rare-earth magnetic material is probably inherently unsafe for use as a kids toy and should not be marketed as such. https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=neodymium+toy https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=neodymium+toy https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=neodymium+kids+toy https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=neodymium+ki...
  - romwell 8y ago
    >rare-earth magnetic material is probably inherently unsafe for use as a kids toy and should not be marketed as such. Indeed, and you will find that Zen Magnets, who is fighting this in courts, has not been marketing their products as toys[1]. What you say makes sense, and Zen Magnets has made extensive efforts to educate about the potential dangers - and has made multiple offers to CPSC to come forth with requirements on how they could market the product safely. CPSC has rejected such offers. What you see on Amazon is the result of this rejection: CPSC has lost big, and now unlicensed 3rd parties are selling off-brand magnets as "toys", and aren't even breaking the law. Has CPSC stopped at simply requiring what you asked, these products would have been clearly illegal. Because CPSC abused their power, this is not the case. You can read more on the legalities here[2]. Quote: >Zen has made clear from the get-go that it does not oppose reasonable safety regulations of its product. Indeed, it has petitioned the CPSC to issue a regulation with rigorous requirements for packaging and labeling. Instead, the agency has petulantly insisted that it will accept nothing less than the complete capitulation of the company to the agency’s demands that it cease sale of its only product. >From a safety standpoint, the CPSC’s ineffectual regulatory and litigation strategy has resulted in opening the marketplace to companies who, unlike Zen, have no interest in promoting safe use of SREMs. Because the agency’s position on both the regulation and the recall of the Zen product have been overruled, the market is now wide open, with no requirements for safety precautions applicable to the product in place. This result is on the agency. End quote. [1]https://zenmagnets.com/ https://zenmagnets.com/ [2]https://nancynord.net/2018/06/12/shihan-and-the-order-of-the-phoenix https://nancynord.net/2018/06/12/shihan-and-the-order-of-the...

romwell 8y ago

You can same the same thing about Tide pods, and yet we don't have a nationwide bad of similar products. The question is not about whether these magnets can be dangerous if ingested. The ridiculousness of CPSC here is that they wouldn't allow the sale of magnets under any conditions whatsoever, putting them into a category more dangerous than guns, explosives, and military weapons. As for the dangers, there are statistics out there showing that a response beyond sticking a warning label is disproportionate, considering the history of regulating consumer products, many of which are highly lethal (e.g. Tide pods and other household chemicals).

marshray 8y ago
Tide pods are not actively marketed as toys, they are indeed marketed as household chemicals. I agree CPSC should not be able to ban the sale of magnets in general, but it seems reasonable to me that they be able regulate how products are marketed. Bare rare-earth magnetic material is probably inherently unsafe for use as a kids toy and should not be marketed as such. https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=neodymium+toy https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=neodymium+toy https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=neodymium+kids+toy https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=neodymium+ki...
- romwell 8y ago
  >rare-earth magnetic material is probably inherently unsafe for use as a kids toy and should not be marketed as such. Indeed, and you will find that Zen Magnets, who is fighting this in courts, has not been marketing their products as toys[1]. What you say makes sense, and Zen Magnets has made extensive efforts to educate about the potential dangers - and has made multiple offers to CPSC to come forth with requirements on how they could market the product safely. CPSC has rejected such offers. What you see on Amazon is the result of this rejection: CPSC has lost big, and now unlicensed 3rd parties are selling off-brand magnets as "toys", and aren't even breaking the law. Has CPSC stopped at simply requiring what you asked, these products would have been clearly illegal. Because CPSC abused their power, this is not the case. You can read more on the legalities here[2]. Quote: >Zen has made clear from the get-go that it does not oppose reasonable safety regulations of its product. Indeed, it has petitioned the CPSC to issue a regulation with rigorous requirements for packaging and labeling. Instead, the agency has petulantly insisted that it will accept nothing less than the complete capitulation of the company to the agency’s demands that it cease sale of its only product. >From a safety standpoint, the CPSC’s ineffectual regulatory and litigation strategy has resulted in opening the marketplace to companies who, unlike Zen, have no interest in promoting safe use of SREMs. Because the agency’s position on both the regulation and the recall of the Zen product have been overruled, the market is now wide open, with no requirements for safety precautions applicable to the product in place. This result is on the agency. End quote. [1]https://zenmagnets.com/ https://zenmagnets.com/ [2]https://nancynord.net/2018/06/12/shihan-and-the-order-of-the-phoenix https://nancynord.net/2018/06/12/shihan-and-the-order-of-the...