5 ms·

Australian footage of Neil Armstrong's moon walk

40 points by wiks 16y ago

mikek 16y ago
Is it just me or is it amazing to think that such important footage could be lost and left to become damaged?
- zandorg 16y ago
  I think when it was on video, it got erased. When it was on film, they kept it because they couldn't erase it...
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Many of the NPR audio archives were at risk because it turned out that the audio tape formulations of the 70's were defective. Many CDRs and writable DVDs use dyes that will become corrupt in about a decade. Charles Stross has the early 21st century comprise a "digital dark ages" in some of his books because of a proliferation of proprietary/DRM formats. It is both amazing and understandable.
  - pavel_lishin 16y ago
    " Charles Stross has the early 21st century comprise a "digital dark ages" in some of his books" Which ones? I'm trying to read more of his stuff, so far it's been hit or miss.
    - almost 16y ago
      Glass House is one. Read Accelerando first though, Glass House is set in the same universe but a bit later on, plus that book is awesome :) Anyone got any other recommendations? I've really enjoyed his scifi but not so hot on demons (they were fun, but not as interesting I don't think)
      - InclinedPlane 16y ago
        I really enjoyed Iron Sunrise. I'd also recommend Iain M. Banks and Vernor Vinge as other authors you might enjoy.
        almost 16y ago
        Oh yes, Iron Sunrise was cool. Love Ian M Banks too, The Culture is incredible as a vision of a far future utopia. I've not read any Vernor Vinge but will check it out, recommend any starting points?
        InclinedPlane 16y ago
        Read "A Fire Upon the Deep" then "Deepness in the Sky", those are his best works that I've read. His other stuff is solid ("Rainbow's End", "Tatja Grimm's World", etc.) but not nearly as excellent.
        auxbuss 16y ago
        Banks Culture books are terrific. Interesting world, great ideas, and terrific storytelling. Not a fan of Vinge myself. Also, it's "Rainbows End", no apostrophe. Oddly, I found this book a bit retro in its application of tech.
        InclinedPlane 16y ago
        Also, it's "Rainbows End", no apostrophe. Indeed, shamefully my fingers auto-corrected.
        endtime 16y ago
        This is the correct answer. Also, the sequel to Fire is coming out in February. :)
        endtime 16y ago
        I love the Culture books, but don't count out The Algebraist (possibly my favorite of Banks's books) or Against a Dark Background.
  - ig1 16y ago
    Most floppy disks only have a life span of 10 years, there are a number of computer games form the 90s for which we only have hacked/pirated versions of because no-one has a 100% working original anymore.
- Hoff 16y ago
  It's more than just footage, the hardware itself can be a problem. In this same vein, here are some other old and NASA media- and hardware-related materials that may be of interest: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/22/nation/na-lunar22 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/22/nation/na-lunar22 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106637066 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1066370... http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/25183 http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/25183 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwbw1vhtZ0g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwbw1vhtZ0g
  - mark_h 16y ago
    I went to a lunch-time talk at WWDC'09 on this stuff (I forget the name of the guy presenting unfortunately, but I presume he was mentioned in those articles). Absolutely mind-blowing. Two things I recall, apart from the stunning images: * This was all done in analogue of course; the camera of the lunar orbiter had a 24" aperture from memory, and essentially a mechanical film processing lab onboard (then stitched back on earth by manual layout and re-photographing). "They knew how to build stuff back then!" * As you said, he was emphasising that while data formats are important, the hardware is even more crucial. For the tapes they were recovering, there were only 4 machines left in the world that could read them... and only one human who knew how they worked and could repair them! I went and started reading up on the long-now project after that. * Bonus recollection: the reason the tapes hadn't degraded and lost their magnetic material, like many others their age, was because the binding agent used was... whale oil. Actually, I've found the slides: http://www.slideshare.net/kcowing/presentation-by-dennis-wingo-on-the-lunar-orbiter-image-recovery-project-at-the-2009-apple-wwdc http://www.slideshare.net/kcowing/presentation-by-dennis-win... Thanks so much for the reminder.
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  It's sad, but an aspect of human nature. It's all too easy to avoid responsibility, push it off as someone else's problem, concentrate on more immediate problems, etc. Or to live in denial about the limited lifespan of magnetic tape, for example.
kasharoo 16y ago
Fake.

40 points by wiks 16y ago

mikek 16y ago

Is it just me or is it amazing to think that such important footage could be lost and left to become damaged?

zandorg 16y ago
I think when it was on video, it got erased. When it was on film, they kept it because they couldn't erase it...
stcredzero 16y ago
Many of the NPR audio archives were at risk because it turned out that the audio tape formulations of the 70's were defective. Many CDRs and writable DVDs use dyes that will become corrupt in about a decade. Charles Stross has the early 21st century comprise a "digital dark ages" in some of his books because of a proliferation of proprietary/DRM formats. It is both amazing and understandable.
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  " Charles Stross has the early 21st century comprise a "digital dark ages" in some of his books" Which ones? I'm trying to read more of his stuff, so far it's been hit or miss.
  - almost 16y ago
    Glass House is one. Read Accelerando first though, Glass House is set in the same universe but a bit later on, plus that book is awesome :) Anyone got any other recommendations? I've really enjoyed his scifi but not so hot on demons (they were fun, but not as interesting I don't think)
    - InclinedPlane 16y ago
      I really enjoyed Iron Sunrise. I'd also recommend Iain M. Banks and Vernor Vinge as other authors you might enjoy.
      - almost 16y ago
        Oh yes, Iron Sunrise was cool. Love Ian M Banks too, The Culture is incredible as a vision of a far future utopia. I've not read any Vernor Vinge but will check it out, recommend any starting points?
        InclinedPlane 16y ago
        Read "A Fire Upon the Deep" then "Deepness in the Sky", those are his best works that I've read. His other stuff is solid ("Rainbow's End", "Tatja Grimm's World", etc.) but not nearly as excellent.
        auxbuss 16y ago
        Banks Culture books are terrific. Interesting world, great ideas, and terrific storytelling. Not a fan of Vinge myself. Also, it's "Rainbows End", no apostrophe. Oddly, I found this book a bit retro in its application of tech.
        InclinedPlane 16y ago
        Also, it's "Rainbows End", no apostrophe. Indeed, shamefully my fingers auto-corrected.
        endtime 16y ago
        This is the correct answer. Also, the sequel to Fire is coming out in February. :)
        endtime 16y ago
        I love the Culture books, but don't count out The Algebraist (possibly my favorite of Banks's books) or Against a Dark Background.
- ig1 16y ago
  Most floppy disks only have a life span of 10 years, there are a number of computer games form the 90s for which we only have hacked/pirated versions of because no-one has a 100% working original anymore.
Hoff 16y ago
It's more than just footage, the hardware itself can be a problem. In this same vein, here are some other old and NASA media- and hardware-related materials that may be of interest: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/22/nation/na-lunar22 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/22/nation/na-lunar22 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106637066 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1066370... http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/25183 http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/25183 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwbw1vhtZ0g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwbw1vhtZ0g
- mark_h 16y ago
  I went to a lunch-time talk at WWDC'09 on this stuff (I forget the name of the guy presenting unfortunately, but I presume he was mentioned in those articles). Absolutely mind-blowing. Two things I recall, apart from the stunning images: * This was all done in analogue of course; the camera of the lunar orbiter had a 24" aperture from memory, and essentially a mechanical film processing lab onboard (then stitched back on earth by manual layout and re-photographing). "They knew how to build stuff back then!" * As you said, he was emphasising that while data formats are important, the hardware is even more crucial. For the tapes they were recovering, there were only 4 machines left in the world that could read them... and only one human who knew how they worked and could repair them! I went and started reading up on the long-now project after that. * Bonus recollection: the reason the tapes hadn't degraded and lost their magnetic material, like many others their age, was because the binding agent used was... whale oil. Actually, I've found the slides: http://www.slideshare.net/kcowing/presentation-by-dennis-wingo-on-the-lunar-orbiter-image-recovery-project-at-the-2009-apple-wwdc http://www.slideshare.net/kcowing/presentation-by-dennis-win... Thanks so much for the reminder.
InclinedPlane 16y ago
It's sad, but an aspect of human nature. It's all too easy to avoid responsibility, push it off as someone else's problem, concentrate on more immediate problems, etc. Or to live in denial about the limited lifespan of magnetic tape, for example.

kasharoo 16y ago

Fake.