7 ms·

Why are 80% of suicides men? Is this a gender issue? Is this a gender equality issue?

by notadoc 8y ago

daxorid 8y ago
edit: You've all made my point for me. Comment removed, Kommissar.
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  According to my quick look at wikipedia, consensus seems to be that men choose more lethal means of suicide than women. Women tend to choose things like drug overdoses or wrist cutting, while men tend to choose things like hanging or firearms. Women apparently attempt suicide more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...
  - drblast 8y ago
    I wonder what the numbers would look like if they were instead "number of people who have attempted suicide one or more times" which would seem to be a more meaningful measurement. If you attempt suicide and succeed you're not going to do it again.
  - notadoc 8y ago
    Men are more "successful" at suicide, whereas women tend to "fail" more at suicide. Interestingly, the suicide attempts are often categorized as a call for help, as specifically stated by the attempters themselves. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/205075 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... > Of the attempters, 39.3% (3.5) endorsed the statement that they made a serious attempt, and it was only because of luck that they did not die; while 13.3% (2.1) endorsed the statement that they were serious, but knew the method was not foolproof; and the remaining 47.3% (3.9) endorsed the statement that their attempt was a cry for help, and they did not want to die. It makes you wonder, why the gender discrepancy? Is this cultural? Social? Are women simply better at asking for help than men? Are men simply more stubborn than women?
- and0 8y ago
  It wasn't even 100 years ago that women couldn't even vote, and equal rights for various minority groups took even longer to catch up. I would argue that those groups at that time must have justifiably felt significantly more "disposable", and yet I don't believe they had astronomical suicide rates to match. The same could be said for the entirety of the third world. Your argument doesn't really make sense in that context. There is a men's mental health epidemic, I'm not trying to diminish that. Where things get tricky is when people lament other groups getting equal representation (politically, culturally, or especially economically) as the reason for it. That is an inherently racist or misogynistic political stance, even when coyly presented devoid of context, because it ultimately must advocate for a return to those inequalities.
  - legostormtroopr 8y ago
    It wasn’t even 120 years ago that non-wealthy non-landowners could vote either. Women’s suffrage was a close flow on from universal suffrage. It’s historically dishonest to imply that all men had the vote prior to women when that’s not even remotely close to the truth. Likewise, I’m sure Western/European women felt mighty valuable when generations of me, right up until Vietnam in the 70s when men were still addressing involuntary conscription. Nothing says disposable like being shipped off to war by the boatload.
- krapp 8y ago
  >You've all made my point for me. Comment removed, Kommissar. I don't see a point having been made, but I do see a coward unable to abide criticism of their opinions. Whatever those were.
uberdru 8y ago
Not sure how else you could reasonably frame the question.
rossdavidh 8y ago
Short answer: we don't know. Slightly longer answer: it also varies a lot between races of men, and between countries, so to unravel this completely you'd probably have to figure out how gender, race, and national culture interact, so don't hold your breath for a definitive answer anytime soon. Probably lots of B.S. answers coming your way soon, though.
- uberdru 8y ago
  I agree. Just interesting that the issue is not proportionally funded. That's perhaps a more interesting question.
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    I suppose it would be good to know if the ways of preventing and treating those at risk are different depending on gender. If not, why have proportional funding?
    - uberdru 8y ago
      You never know till studies get funded.
- WalterSear 8y ago
  We do know. We just don't care about distressed men, so we dissemble, rationalize and pass around the FUD.
victorhn 8y ago
Men have to prove that they are "valuable" more often than women. It depends on other factors, and is a generalisation, but i would say that a woman who is a "failure" may not have as gloomy prospects as if he were a man.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  How? Women are under represented in the board room and there is a pay gap. We can argue about the causes, but I don’t think you could say that they are getting valued higher than men in the section of life that employment represents.
  - djohnston 8y ago
    that's not what the commenter is saying.. they're saying that the pressure on men to demonstrate value is higher than it is on women, which when you look at dating habits between men and women becomes obviously clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy
  - seatdrummer 8y ago
    All that says is that men are apparently more valuable for making money and says nothing about the inherent value of men. Men may very well be more valuable to businesses precisely because they need to be in order to have any value to society. The whole women and children first, chivalry, take a bullet for your wife, provide for the family/make a lot of money, draft into military, homeless men not getting access to same welfare as women and children, women have an in group bias towards women and men have a bias towards women as well (Women are wonderful), men getting beat in the street is uncomfortable while a woman getting beat is a major call for action. All of these are value biases towards women and against men. We see it in concern for breast cancer above all other cancers. In general what is socially acceptable is tied to womens' best interest. Once something becomes a women's issue it begins to get solved. Boys are falling behind in academics, they are killing themselves, they work longer hours, they have to stop whining. There are just so many things. I know I've made tons of claims here without sources, but if we are being honest I think we know many of these things are true.
jdietrich 8y ago
The statistics present an apparent paradox - women are significantly more likely to attempt suicide, but men are significantly more likely to die by suicide. Much of the disparity appears to explained by the choice of method; men are much more likely to choose more lethal methods, leading to a greater number of deaths from a smaller number of attempts. Men seem to be more impulsive and progress more quickly from suicidal thoughts to suicidal behaviour. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21529962 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21529962
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
antisthenes 8y ago
Look up sexual dimorphism and start from there.

Why are 80% of suicides men? Is this a gender issue? Is this a gender equality issue?

daxorid 8y ago

edit: You've all made my point for me. Comment removed, Kommissar.

wilsonnb2 8y ago
According to my quick look at wikipedia, consensus seems to be that men choose more lethal means of suicide than women. Women tend to choose things like drug overdoses or wrist cutting, while men tend to choose things like hanging or firearms. Women apparently attempt suicide more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Differing_methods_by_gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#...
- drblast 8y ago
  I wonder what the numbers would look like if they were instead "number of people who have attempted suicide one or more times" which would seem to be a more meaningful measurement. If you attempt suicide and succeed you're not going to do it again.
- notadoc 8y ago
  Men are more "successful" at suicide, whereas women tend to "fail" more at suicide. Interestingly, the suicide attempts are often categorized as a call for help, as specifically stated by the attempters themselves. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/205075 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... > Of the attempters, 39.3% (3.5) endorsed the statement that they made a serious attempt, and it was only because of luck that they did not die; while 13.3% (2.1) endorsed the statement that they were serious, but knew the method was not foolproof; and the remaining 47.3% (3.9) endorsed the statement that their attempt was a cry for help, and they did not want to die. It makes you wonder, why the gender discrepancy? Is this cultural? Social? Are women simply better at asking for help than men? Are men simply more stubborn than women?
and0 8y ago
It wasn't even 100 years ago that women couldn't even vote, and equal rights for various minority groups took even longer to catch up. I would argue that those groups at that time must have justifiably felt significantly more "disposable", and yet I don't believe they had astronomical suicide rates to match. The same could be said for the entirety of the third world. Your argument doesn't really make sense in that context. There is a men's mental health epidemic, I'm not trying to diminish that. Where things get tricky is when people lament other groups getting equal representation (politically, culturally, or especially economically) as the reason for it. That is an inherently racist or misogynistic political stance, even when coyly presented devoid of context, because it ultimately must advocate for a return to those inequalities.
- legostormtroopr 8y ago
  It wasn’t even 120 years ago that non-wealthy non-landowners could vote either. Women’s suffrage was a close flow on from universal suffrage. It’s historically dishonest to imply that all men had the vote prior to women when that’s not even remotely close to the truth. Likewise, I’m sure Western/European women felt mighty valuable when generations of me, right up until Vietnam in the 70s when men were still addressing involuntary conscription. Nothing says disposable like being shipped off to war by the boatload.
krapp 8y ago
>You've all made my point for me. Comment removed, Kommissar. I don't see a point having been made, but I do see a coward unable to abide criticism of their opinions. Whatever those were.

uberdru 8y ago

Not sure how else you could reasonably frame the question.

rossdavidh 8y ago

Short answer: we don't know. Slightly longer answer: it also varies a lot between races of men, and between countries, so to unravel this completely you'd probably have to figure out how gender, race, and national culture interact, so don't hold your breath for a definitive answer anytime soon. Probably lots of B.S. answers coming your way soon, though.

uberdru 8y ago
I agree. Just interesting that the issue is not proportionally funded. That's perhaps a more interesting question.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  I suppose it would be good to know if the ways of preventing and treating those at risk are different depending on gender. If not, why have proportional funding?
  - uberdru 8y ago
    You never know till studies get funded.
WalterSear 8y ago
We do know. We just don't care about distressed men, so we dissemble, rationalize and pass around the FUD.

victorhn 8y ago

Men have to prove that they are "valuable" more often than women. It depends on other factors, and is a generalisation, but i would say that a woman who is a "failure" may not have as gloomy prospects as if he were a man.

lostlogin 8y ago
How? Women are under represented in the board room and there is a pay gap. We can argue about the causes, but I don’t think you could say that they are getting valued higher than men in the section of life that employment represents.
- djohnston 8y ago
  that's not what the commenter is saying.. they're saying that the pressure on men to demonstrate value is higher than it is on women, which when you look at dating habits between men and women becomes obviously clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy
- seatdrummer 8y ago
  All that says is that men are apparently more valuable for making money and says nothing about the inherent value of men. Men may very well be more valuable to businesses precisely because they need to be in order to have any value to society. The whole women and children first, chivalry, take a bullet for your wife, provide for the family/make a lot of money, draft into military, homeless men not getting access to same welfare as women and children, women have an in group bias towards women and men have a bias towards women as well (Women are wonderful), men getting beat in the street is uncomfortable while a woman getting beat is a major call for action. All of these are value biases towards women and against men. We see it in concern for breast cancer above all other cancers. In general what is socially acceptable is tied to womens' best interest. Once something becomes a women's issue it begins to get solved. Boys are falling behind in academics, they are killing themselves, they work longer hours, they have to stop whining. There are just so many things. I know I've made tons of claims here without sources, but if we are being honest I think we know many of these things are true.

jdietrich 8y ago

The statistics present an apparent paradox - women are significantly more likely to attempt suicide, but men are significantly more likely to die by suicide. Much of the disparity appears to explained by the choice of method; men are much more likely to choose more lethal methods, leading to a greater number of deaths from a smaller number of attempts. Men seem to be more impulsive and progress more quickly from suicidal thoughts to suicidal behaviour. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21529962 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21529962

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

antisthenes 8y ago

Look up sexual dimorphism and start from there.