5 ms·

Yeah, because "coercive bullshit" doesn't exist in sexually conservative societies...

toasterlovin 8y ago
At least you have a good chance of avoiding coercive bullshit in monogamous pair bonds. Whereas almost every single cult that promotes alternatives to monogamous pair bonds somehow ends up being about providing the (usually male) leader with sexual access to some of the (usually female) disciples and then turning the rest of the disciples into personal servants.
- stickfigure 8y ago
  I suggest you have some long conversations with ex-Jehova's Witnesses sometime.
- allthenews 8y ago
  I imagine you're more likely to be raped by a spouse than to end up in a coercive cult. But I don't have data. You are aware that nonmonogamous and nontraditional sexual relationships exist outside of cults, right? Your perception of sex and sexuality outside of conservative societies seems to be skewed-both underemphasizing sexual aggression within conservative groups and overemphasizing preponderance of cults and coercion elsewhere.
- passwordreset 8y ago
  The monogamous pair bonds _are_ the coercive bullshit.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    It's like Churchill said about democracy: It's the worst system, except for all the others.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >At least you have a good chance of avoiding coercive bullshit in monogamous pair bonds. Huh? That's the very province of coercive bullshit, from the abusive wife-beater to spousal rape, and tons of other shit besides (including obsessive jealously, repression, and so on...) Cults amount to what? 1% of the population?
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    You and allthenews seems to be mistaken in the same way. I am not saying that cults are disproportionately responsible for sexual coercion. They can't be. As you correctly point out, they account for a vanishingly small share of sexual activity. What I am saying is that if you join a cult, your chance of being coerced (sexually if you are what the person/people in power prefer, and financially/emotionally/etc. in all cases) starts to approach 100%. Whereas, if you are in a monogamous pair, there is a pretty good chance that you will not be coerced sexually. I am in no way saying that monogamous pairs are perfect (or even pretty good; there are all sorts of issues with them), just that, given the choice between that and a cult, you should avoid the cult.
    - rosser 8y ago
      > Whereas, if you are in a monogamous pair, there is a pretty good chance that you will not be coerced sexually. Multiple analyses of spousal/partner rape put the incidence on the order of 30-40% of all adult rape cases. When there's co-occurring domestic violence, that number climbs to over 70%. Partner and acquaintance rape combined vastly outnumber stranger assaults. Monogamy is not a solution to that problem. I guess one could argue that ~7 out of 10 is a "pretty good chance", but that's still uncountably more people than have even belonged to, let alone were abused by, all the cults in the history of ever, combined. I get it: cults are dangerous. Stipulated. "[G]iven the choice between [monogamy] and a cult, you should avoid the cult" is still a false dilemma, however, and no matter how strongly you assert you were just talking about cults, the language you used up-thread was considerably broader than that, as well.

At least you have a good chance of avoiding coercive bullshit in monogamous pair bonds. Whereas almost every single cult that promotes alternatives to monogamous pair bonds somehow ends up being about providing the (usually male) leader with sexual access to some of the (usually female) disciples and then turning the rest of the disciples into personal servants.

stickfigure 8y ago
I suggest you have some long conversations with ex-Jehova's Witnesses sometime.
allthenews 8y ago
I imagine you're more likely to be raped by a spouse than to end up in a coercive cult. But I don't have data. You are aware that nonmonogamous and nontraditional sexual relationships exist outside of cults, right? Your perception of sex and sexuality outside of conservative societies seems to be skewed-both underemphasizing sexual aggression within conservative groups and overemphasizing preponderance of cults and coercion elsewhere.
passwordreset 8y ago
The monogamous pair bonds _are_ the coercive bullshit.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  It's like Churchill said about democracy: It's the worst system, except for all the others.
coldtea 8y ago
>At least you have a good chance of avoiding coercive bullshit in monogamous pair bonds. Huh? That's the very province of coercive bullshit, from the abusive wife-beater to spousal rape, and tons of other shit besides (including obsessive jealously, repression, and so on...) Cults amount to what? 1% of the population?
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  You and allthenews seems to be mistaken in the same way. I am not saying that cults are disproportionately responsible for sexual coercion. They can't be. As you correctly point out, they account for a vanishingly small share of sexual activity. What I am saying is that if you join a cult, your chance of being coerced (sexually if you are what the person/people in power prefer, and financially/emotionally/etc. in all cases) starts to approach 100%. Whereas, if you are in a monogamous pair, there is a pretty good chance that you will not be coerced sexually. I am in no way saying that monogamous pairs are perfect (or even pretty good; there are all sorts of issues with them), just that, given the choice between that and a cult, you should avoid the cult.
  - rosser 8y ago
    > Whereas, if you are in a monogamous pair, there is a pretty good chance that you will not be coerced sexually. Multiple analyses of spousal/partner rape put the incidence on the order of 30-40% of all adult rape cases. When there's co-occurring domestic violence, that number climbs to over 70%. Partner and acquaintance rape combined vastly outnumber stranger assaults. Monogamy is not a solution to that problem. I guess one could argue that ~7 out of 10 is a "pretty good chance", but that's still uncountably more people than have even belonged to, let alone were abused by, all the cults in the history of ever, combined. I get it: cults are dangerous. Stipulated. "[G]iven the choice between [monogamy] and a cult, you should avoid the cult" is still a false dilemma, however, and no matter how strongly you assert you were just talking about cults, the language you used up-thread was considerably broader than that, as well.