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> Don’t forget compliance with GDPR probably means it’s not possible to comply with this new copyright laws. Fun times for EU startups. GDPR is a good example

by sebst 8y ago

> Don’t forget compliance with GDPR probably means it’s not possible to comply with this new copyright laws. Fun times for EU startups. GDPR is a good example of another law which is potentially dangerous. However, I do see that it's hard to comply with both, but I don't see how they interact with other. > P.S.: Taking some risks quoting Ayn Rand on HN. :) Why?

hartator 8y ago
> GDPR is a good example of another law which is potentially dangerous. However, I do see that it's hard to comply with both, but I don't see how they interact with other. The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever while GDPR forbids you to do so. > Why? I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian.
- detaro 8y ago
  > The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever Then GDPR does not forbid you to do so, Article 6.1 c) > 1. Processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that at least one of the following applies: > [...] > c) processing is necessary for compliance with a legal obligation to which the controller is subject;
- sebst 8y ago
  > The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever while GDPR forbids you to do so. GDPR allows you to do so, if there is a requirement. Complying with another law is certainly a reasonable requirement. That's also why you're "allowed" to keep your invoices for ten years, because you're "required" to do so. > I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian. This might be true, might be false. A good discussion should incorporate different views. And back to topic: I firmly believe this law to be dangerous by itself and not because there is a (more or less) applicable quote by a controversial writer.
  - hartator 8y ago
    > GDPR allows you to do so, if there is a requirement. Complying with another law is certainly a reasonable requirement. That's also why you're "allowed" to keep your invoices for ten years, because you're "required" to do so. True. Your quote from Ayn Rand was actually a reaction from 2 characters discussing how one law make it not possible to respect another. GDPR does make it more complex, and one can argue copyright is not a subject that should infringe privacy. It’s up to debate. Debate that US based startups won’t need to have if they don’t want to. And it was more a Kudos to quoting Ayn Rand and an upvote!
- trisiak 8y ago
  Libertarianism is orthogonal to left-right split. https://www.politicalcompass.org/ https://www.politicalcompass.org/
  - ravenstine 8y ago
    True, but a lot of people do not see it that way. (although that's partly due to prominent Republicans hitching a ride on the Libertarian wagon when it's convenient)
  - gameswithgo 8y ago
    libertarianism is whatever it needs to be to win the argument at hand. it means about as much as "scripting language" or "strongly typed"
    - tripzilch 8y ago
      ... did you just call libertarians weakly typed?? Also, now I want to write a framework called "libtarianism" that includes a pseudo rand generator.
  - Bakary 8y ago
    It seems the left-leaning flavor is rarely seen in online commentary or among the tech moguls who openly embrace libertarianism.
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  Libertarian doesn't mean "right-wing", it just was co-opted as such, in fact there are many left-wing libertarians.
  - MistahKoala 8y ago
    And libertarians aren't necessarily or typically objectivists.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    Many as in 2%? There are certainly some ideas of merit but supporting politicians that push it seems to inevitably involve benefiting the right who is pushing for many agendas that will personally damage me and mine so I cannot in good conscience do so.
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      In Europe, it's many, in the U.S. not so much. That's why most politicians you see are of the right-wing variety. And you seem to be misunderstanding. Left-wing libertarians do not have the same set of ideas as the right-wing ones, you seem to think that there is "libertarianism" and that I am saying that some on the left also stand for those ideas that those on the right, (the only real area of agreement is an anti-war stance). Left libertarianism is mostly about personal freedom, as opposed to authoritarianism, while still being in favor of social programs, oppose privatization of public services etc. You should read up on it. See also [1]. "In the United States, the word "libertarian" has become associated with right-libertarianism after Murray Rothbard and Karl Hess reached out to the New Left in the 1960s.[7] However, until then political usage of the word was associated exclusively with anti-capitalism and in most parts of the world such an association still predominates." 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
- dfxm12 8y ago
  I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian. I would've thought so too, until I looked at discussions about unions on here.
srah763 8y ago
Because her entire “philosophy” is egotistical selfishness, in her own words. So the opposite of good and profoundly ignorant. No point in rehashing 1000 year old debates that were settled long ago on this type of behavior.
- rocketraman 8y ago
  This comment is profoundly ignorant. You're dismissing her philosophy because of two descriptive words (and not even the best two, which would probably be "rational selfishness"), which you have decided are the "opposite of good" simply because history says they are? That's just an appeal to tradition: plenty of people have been wrong about plenty of things throughout history, especially in the areas of morality and ethics. You clearly know nothing about Rand's philosophy. You would do yourself a favor to correct that error. Even if you ultimately disagree with her, she has very many intelligent things to say and, if you give her a chance, she will challenge many of your preconceptions about morality, ethics, and their postcursors of economics and politics, and raise the level of your discourse significantly.
  - srah763 8y ago
    Yes this happens to not be one of those cases, espousing the virtues of selfishness isn’t up for debate anymore. It’s wrong, and has been shown to be so time and time again. To have to rehash such foolishness is pointless.
    - TooBrokeToBeg 8y ago
      > It’s wrong ...and natural and efficient. ie Not wrong or right. I'm not sure where you get your ideas from.
      - tunesmith 8y ago
        The Nash equilibrium is also natural, efficient, and non-optimal in many cases. Which, in the face of "optimal", could be described as "wrong" if the belief is that optimal is desirable.
HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
Why? Look at all the mentions of "nazi", "fascist" and "hate-speech" in this thread. You can tell when a place leans left because this is a common left-wing conspiracy theory - that the world is full of fascists/nazis, but they're all trying to hide it. They call it 'cryptofascism'.
- tripzilch 8y ago
  But cryptofascists will put you on a blocktrain.
  - idbaat 8y ago
    That was my smile for today!

by sebst 8y ago

hartator 8y ago

> GDPR is a good example of another law which is potentially dangerous. However, I do see that it's hard to comply with both, but I don't see how they interact with other. The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever while GDPR forbids you to do so. > Why? I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian.

detaro 8y ago
> The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever Then GDPR does not forbid you to do so, Article 6.1 c) > 1. Processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that at least one of the following applies: > [...] > c) processing is necessary for compliance with a legal obligation to which the controller is subject;
sebst 8y ago
> The copyright law requires you to store metadata about the user who publish content forever while GDPR forbids you to do so. GDPR allows you to do so, if there is a requirement. Complying with another law is certainly a reasonable requirement. That's also why you're "allowed" to keep your invoices for ten years, because you're "required" to do so. > I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian. This might be true, might be false. A good discussion should incorporate different views. And back to topic: I firmly believe this law to be dangerous by itself and not because there is a (more or less) applicable quote by a controversial writer.
- hartator 8y ago
  > GDPR allows you to do so, if there is a requirement. Complying with another law is certainly a reasonable requirement. That's also why you're "allowed" to keep your invoices for ten years, because you're "required" to do so. True. Your quote from Ayn Rand was actually a reaction from 2 characters discussing how one law make it not possible to respect another. GDPR does make it more complex, and one can argue copyright is not a subject that should infringe privacy. It’s up to debate. Debate that US based startups won’t need to have if they don’t want to. And it was more a Kudos to quoting Ayn Rand and an upvote!
trisiak 8y ago
Libertarianism is orthogonal to left-right split. https://www.politicalcompass.org/ https://www.politicalcompass.org/
- ravenstine 8y ago
  True, but a lot of people do not see it that way. (although that's partly due to prominent Republicans hitching a ride on the Libertarian wagon when it's convenient)
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  libertarianism is whatever it needs to be to win the argument at hand. it means about as much as "scripting language" or "strongly typed"
  - tripzilch 8y ago
    ... did you just call libertarians weakly typed?? Also, now I want to write a framework called "libtarianism" that includes a pseudo rand generator.
- Bakary 8y ago
  It seems the left-leaning flavor is rarely seen in online commentary or among the tech moguls who openly embrace libertarianism.
AsyncAwait 8y ago
Libertarian doesn't mean "right-wing", it just was co-opted as such, in fact there are many left-wing libertarians.
- MistahKoala 8y ago
  And libertarians aren't necessarily or typically objectivists.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  Many as in 2%? There are certainly some ideas of merit but supporting politicians that push it seems to inevitably involve benefiting the right who is pushing for many agendas that will personally damage me and mine so I cannot in good conscience do so.
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    In Europe, it's many, in the U.S. not so much. That's why most politicians you see are of the right-wing variety. And you seem to be misunderstanding. Left-wing libertarians do not have the same set of ideas as the right-wing ones, you seem to think that there is "libertarianism" and that I am saying that some on the left also stand for those ideas that those on the right, (the only real area of agreement is an anti-war stance). Left libertarianism is mostly about personal freedom, as opposed to authoritarianism, while still being in favor of social programs, oppose privatization of public services etc. You should read up on it. See also [1]. "In the United States, the word "libertarian" has become associated with right-libertarianism after Murray Rothbard and Karl Hess reached out to the New Left in the 1960s.[7] However, until then political usage of the word was associated exclusively with anti-capitalism and in most parts of the world such an association still predominates." 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
dfxm12 8y ago
I would say most of HN leans left not libertarian. I would've thought so too, until I looked at discussions about unions on here.

srah763 8y ago

Because her entire “philosophy” is egotistical selfishness, in her own words. So the opposite of good and profoundly ignorant. No point in rehashing 1000 year old debates that were settled long ago on this type of behavior.

rocketraman 8y ago
This comment is profoundly ignorant. You're dismissing her philosophy because of two descriptive words (and not even the best two, which would probably be "rational selfishness"), which you have decided are the "opposite of good" simply because history says they are? That's just an appeal to tradition: plenty of people have been wrong about plenty of things throughout history, especially in the areas of morality and ethics. You clearly know nothing about Rand's philosophy. You would do yourself a favor to correct that error. Even if you ultimately disagree with her, she has very many intelligent things to say and, if you give her a chance, she will challenge many of your preconceptions about morality, ethics, and their postcursors of economics and politics, and raise the level of your discourse significantly.
- srah763 8y ago
  Yes this happens to not be one of those cases, espousing the virtues of selfishness isn’t up for debate anymore. It’s wrong, and has been shown to be so time and time again. To have to rehash such foolishness is pointless.
  - TooBrokeToBeg 8y ago
    > It’s wrong ...and natural and efficient. ie Not wrong or right. I'm not sure where you get your ideas from.
    - tunesmith 8y ago
      The Nash equilibrium is also natural, efficient, and non-optimal in many cases. Which, in the face of "optimal", could be described as "wrong" if the belief is that optimal is desirable.

HumanDrivenDev 8y ago

Why? Look at all the mentions of "nazi", "fascist" and "hate-speech" in this thread. You can tell when a place leans left because this is a common left-wing conspiracy theory - that the world is full of fascists/nazis, but they're all trying to hide it. They call it 'cryptofascism'.

tripzilch 8y ago
But cryptofascists will put you on a blocktrain.
- idbaat 8y ago
  That was my smile for today!