7 ms·

It was approved on in a committee of the European parliament (for legal matters), which means that now they will enter negotiations with the European Council an

It was approved on in a committee of the European parliament (for legal matters), which means that now they will enter negotiations with the European Council and then after some time and processes laid out in Art. 293ff TFEU, it will be debated in the European Parliament at some point. So yes, there is still plenty of room and time to discuss this rather unfortunate policy. EDIT: For more info: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180618IPR06024/copyright-meps-update-rules-for-the-digital-age http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180618IPR... Votes: Yes - 14 MEPs No - 9 MEPs Abstentions - 2 MEPs

Silhouette 8y ago
So yes, there is still plenty of room and time to discuss this rather unfortunate policy. But not that much time. The main European Parliament vote is due in July. For those of you in the EU, now is probably a good time to be writing to your MEPs.
- merinowool 8y ago
  If this law has already been paid for, what you would get from your MEP is a template response in the spirit of "I share your concerns blah blah, but copyrights are important blah blah". I don't think you can do much about it at this point.
  - r3bl 8y ago
    You should really look up how EU regulations work.
    - merinowool 8y ago
      Enlighten me please, as I don't believe the reasons for passing it are genuine.
      - ahartmetz 8y ago
        Lobbyists don't usually hand over money. Usually they are just good at appearing trustworthy and, uh, explaining the positions of their clients in terms that politicians understand. Therefore, their explainees think they are doing genuinely good things.
        ahartmetz 8y ago
        By the way, I saw a honest-to-god lobbyist at a panel discusssion once. He was wearing a sort of relaxed suit and had a slight punk vibe with slightly messy hair. The personality-free banker look wouldn't win trust so easily when speaking for business interests. Those people really know what they are doing.
      - merinowool 8y ago
        Surely they don't hand over cash, I didn't mean that, but they give benefits by different means.
        Filligree 8y ago
        The main benefit they give is to explain technical concepts in terms the politicians understand. Sometimes that's a "benefit", but that's when calling them yourself helps the most.
        merinowool 8y ago
        That benefit could also be a card to anonymous account in tax haven.
        ameister14 8y ago
        Well, they have in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_cash_for_influence_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_cash_for_influence_scanda...
      - r3bl 8y ago
        I'm way oversimplifying this, but I'm going to enlighten you by saying that this isn't a part of law yet. It merely passed a checkpoint called legal committee (that consists of 25 MEPs) on its way to become a part of law. There are still multiple checkpoints that can be used to counter this, and the proposal will almost certainly be voted on by the entire EP, probably in December/January. That's why calling your representative makes a difference.
  - bengale 8y ago
    I'm in the UK. Conservative MEP did as you said, Labour one sent a bit of a boilerplate that they are considering it, UKIP are of course against it but thats par for the course with them, the green one sent a detailed response and is voting against both art 11 and 13 (the ones I raised issue with).
    - bloak 8y ago
      I have had some very intelligent non-boilerplate replies from Green Party UK MEPs. However, it looks as though we won't have another opportunity to vote for them.
      - azernik 8y ago
        I've found the Greens Europe-wide to take the EU the most seriously as a political body. They run serious Europe-wide campaigns for EP elections, and send politicians of substance to the EP rather than sending the second string like most other parties do.
    - nailer 8y ago
      Hate them as most people in the UK do (I've never voted for them and wouldn't either), UKIP already resolved this (in a far more permanent way than the greens) by ensuring EU law does not apply to the UK in future.
      - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
        What are you going to do next time the UK parliament passes a law you don't like? Dissolve the United Kingdom?
        noir_lord 8y ago
        Can we? I'd be in favour of dissolving it back to counties with a senate. The south never does anything for us up North.
        8y ago
- detaro 8y ago
  No, in July is (assuming someone will force it, which is likely) the vote by the EP to confirm the the committee is authorized to work with the Council on the plans. Whatever the negotiate out will then by voted on by the MEPs. The negotiation is likely to take a few months, and I kind of expect a fight about the speed: those against the proposal will want to stall to get the vote as close as possible to the elections in May 2019, whereas those in support likely want to get it out the door as quickly as possible. I've seen some people suggest December as a likely time for the final vote.
  - Silhouette 8y ago
    Right, but today's vote was just a committee. Next month it comes before the full Parliament. If sufficient awareness can be raised among MEPs before the vote next month that it becomes a toxic issue politically, my understanding is that voting it down at that stage would be an opportunity to effectively stop the whole process.
    - detaro 8y ago
      right, it would already by a good place to kill it, so yes, go call your MEPs! But there's still another chance afterwards, which might be more successful given the timing of the election and people now maybe more likely to argue that it can be "fixed" in negotiations.
      - Silhouette 8y ago
        Ah, yes, sorry. I realised my original comment was ambiguous. I meant that the vote next month will be by the entire Parliament rather than just a committee, not that next month's vote will necessarily be the final decision.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  >>> ...now is probably a good time to be writing to your MEPs. Don't "write". Modern politicians don't open paper letters and they delete emails even more quickly. Tweet. Scream on Facebook. Most importantly: get the support of social media celebs. Between elections, any photogenic teenager with a thousand twitter followers has more political power than a thousand grandmothers writing letters. If you can, get some Hollywood celebs. A visit from an attractive movie star is better than years of campaigns and lawyers. This is the sorry state of the world in which we now live but we can only act within the world we are given.
  - ghein 8y ago
    In the US politicians take calls and written letters most seriously. It's far, far too easy to tweet or facebook something. A passing emotion with no commitment. If someone writes a letter they have put a lot of effort in and are seriously involved in the issue. They might even do something as outdated as vote or talk to their neighbors. That's the kind of behavior that is dangerous to a politician and gets noticed. So written letters and phone calls are the best way to get a politician's attention.
tomp 8y ago
Is there a list of who voted and how available anywhere?
- dtf 8y ago
  "It will be available once the minutes for the meeting have been compiled in the days to come." (from @EP_Legal) https://twitter.com/EP_Legal/status/1009418817393577985 https://twitter.com/EP_Legal/status/1009418817393577985
- myfonj 8y ago
  Video: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?event=20180620-0900-COMMITTEE-JURI http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?ev...
- andy_ppp 8y ago
  I wonder if any of these people have received campaign funding from entrenched industries that benefit from draconian copyright laws? Having said that, GDPR has actually turned out to be a very well thought through piece of legislation - I actually agree with it's premises largely and the fact we can't take a database dump anymore and have full access to people's personal details is an extremely good thing IMO. How Facebook are in compliance with it I have no idea as it would seem impossible to justify a lot of their more intrusive/social features.
  - monsieurbanana 8y ago
    Facebook doesn't need to justify it. All they need to do is send a notice to their users asking for consent. How many of them do will read what that entails, and how many of those would decide their privacy is more important for them than facebook?
    - andy_ppp 8y ago
      What I mean is technical issues - searching an encrypted graph database has got to be very complicated!
    - 8y ago

Silhouette 8y ago

So yes, there is still plenty of room and time to discuss this rather unfortunate policy. But not that much time. The main European Parliament vote is due in July. For those of you in the EU, now is probably a good time to be writing to your MEPs.

merinowool 8y ago
If this law has already been paid for, what you would get from your MEP is a template response in the spirit of "I share your concerns blah blah, but copyrights are important blah blah". I don't think you can do much about it at this point.
- r3bl 8y ago
  You should really look up how EU regulations work.
  - merinowool 8y ago
    Enlighten me please, as I don't believe the reasons for passing it are genuine.
    - ahartmetz 8y ago
      Lobbyists don't usually hand over money. Usually they are just good at appearing trustworthy and, uh, explaining the positions of their clients in terms that politicians understand. Therefore, their explainees think they are doing genuinely good things.
      - ahartmetz 8y ago
        By the way, I saw a honest-to-god lobbyist at a panel discusssion once. He was wearing a sort of relaxed suit and had a slight punk vibe with slightly messy hair. The personality-free banker look wouldn't win trust so easily when speaking for business interests. Those people really know what they are doing.
    - merinowool 8y ago
      Surely they don't hand over cash, I didn't mean that, but they give benefits by different means.
      - Filligree 8y ago
        The main benefit they give is to explain technical concepts in terms the politicians understand. Sometimes that's a "benefit", but that's when calling them yourself helps the most.
        merinowool 8y ago
        That benefit could also be a card to anonymous account in tax haven.
      - ameister14 8y ago
        Well, they have in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_cash_for_influence_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_cash_for_influence_scanda...
    - r3bl 8y ago
      I'm way oversimplifying this, but I'm going to enlighten you by saying that this isn't a part of law yet. It merely passed a checkpoint called legal committee (that consists of 25 MEPs) on its way to become a part of law. There are still multiple checkpoints that can be used to counter this, and the proposal will almost certainly be voted on by the entire EP, probably in December/January. That's why calling your representative makes a difference.
- bengale 8y ago
  I'm in the UK. Conservative MEP did as you said, Labour one sent a bit of a boilerplate that they are considering it, UKIP are of course against it but thats par for the course with them, the green one sent a detailed response and is voting against both art 11 and 13 (the ones I raised issue with).
  - bloak 8y ago
    I have had some very intelligent non-boilerplate replies from Green Party UK MEPs. However, it looks as though we won't have another opportunity to vote for them.
    - azernik 8y ago
      I've found the Greens Europe-wide to take the EU the most seriously as a political body. They run serious Europe-wide campaigns for EP elections, and send politicians of substance to the EP rather than sending the second string like most other parties do.
  - nailer 8y ago
    Hate them as most people in the UK do (I've never voted for them and wouldn't either), UKIP already resolved this (in a far more permanent way than the greens) by ensuring EU law does not apply to the UK in future.
    - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
      What are you going to do next time the UK parliament passes a law you don't like? Dissolve the United Kingdom?
      - noir_lord 8y ago
        Can we? I'd be in favour of dissolving it back to counties with a senate. The south never does anything for us up North.
        8y ago
detaro 8y ago
No, in July is (assuming someone will force it, which is likely) the vote by the EP to confirm the the committee is authorized to work with the Council on the plans. Whatever the negotiate out will then by voted on by the MEPs. The negotiation is likely to take a few months, and I kind of expect a fight about the speed: those against the proposal will want to stall to get the vote as close as possible to the elections in May 2019, whereas those in support likely want to get it out the door as quickly as possible. I've seen some people suggest December as a likely time for the final vote.
- Silhouette 8y ago
  Right, but today's vote was just a committee. Next month it comes before the full Parliament. If sufficient awareness can be raised among MEPs before the vote next month that it becomes a toxic issue politically, my understanding is that voting it down at that stage would be an opportunity to effectively stop the whole process.
  - detaro 8y ago
    right, it would already by a good place to kill it, so yes, go call your MEPs! But there's still another chance afterwards, which might be more successful given the timing of the election and people now maybe more likely to argue that it can be "fixed" in negotiations.
    - Silhouette 8y ago
      Ah, yes, sorry. I realised my original comment was ambiguous. I meant that the vote next month will be by the entire Parliament rather than just a committee, not that next month's vote will necessarily be the final decision.
sandworm101 8y ago
>>> ...now is probably a good time to be writing to your MEPs. Don't "write". Modern politicians don't open paper letters and they delete emails even more quickly. Tweet. Scream on Facebook. Most importantly: get the support of social media celebs. Between elections, any photogenic teenager with a thousand twitter followers has more political power than a thousand grandmothers writing letters. If you can, get some Hollywood celebs. A visit from an attractive movie star is better than years of campaigns and lawyers. This is the sorry state of the world in which we now live but we can only act within the world we are given.
- ghein 8y ago
  In the US politicians take calls and written letters most seriously. It's far, far too easy to tweet or facebook something. A passing emotion with no commitment. If someone writes a letter they have put a lot of effort in and are seriously involved in the issue. They might even do something as outdated as vote or talk to their neighbors. That's the kind of behavior that is dangerous to a politician and gets noticed. So written letters and phone calls are the best way to get a politician's attention.

tomp 8y ago

Is there a list of who voted and how available anywhere?

dtf 8y ago
"It will be available once the minutes for the meeting have been compiled in the days to come." (from @EP_Legal) https://twitter.com/EP_Legal/status/1009418817393577985 https://twitter.com/EP_Legal/status/1009418817393577985
myfonj 8y ago
Video: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?event=20180620-0900-COMMITTEE-JURI http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?ev...
andy_ppp 8y ago
I wonder if any of these people have received campaign funding from entrenched industries that benefit from draconian copyright laws? Having said that, GDPR has actually turned out to be a very well thought through piece of legislation - I actually agree with it's premises largely and the fact we can't take a database dump anymore and have full access to people's personal details is an extremely good thing IMO. How Facebook are in compliance with it I have no idea as it would seem impossible to justify a lot of their more intrusive/social features.
- monsieurbanana 8y ago
  Facebook doesn't need to justify it. All they need to do is send a notice to their users asking for consent. How many of them do will read what that entails, and how many of those would decide their privacy is more important for them than facebook?
  - andy_ppp 8y ago
    What I mean is technical issues - searching an encrypted graph database has got to be very complicated!
  - 8y ago