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Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Is it reasonable to separate children for a few hours to process the adults? Sure. This is what border control

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Is it reasonable to separate children for a few hours to process the adults? Sure. This is what border control does before handing people over to ICE. But there are 2000 kids that ICE has separated for longer than a week (even months) and even placed in social care. You wouldn't do that if one was caught speeding, but for illegal crossings it's ok?

downandout 8y ago
Speeding is an infraction (that’s a legal term). Misdemeanors are crimes punishable by up to 364 days in prison. These two things are not remotely close to one another.
- DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
  For the love of god, stick to the rant in your profile. As of May 28, 2018, after nearly 7 years and over 13K karma points, I am no longer going to be very active on HN. This used to be a place where thoughtful conversation could take place; now it's nothing more than a den of bullies attempting to spread misinformation that supports their political views. Enjoy your echo chamber everyone. The irony given the sheer volume of moral panic and pearl clutching around “illegals” here makes it self-parody.
  - downandout 8y ago
    I actually started this this with 1 comment genuinely asking how people could possibly endorse illegal immigration. No one actually expressed any defensible position, and they still haven’t. When people reply, I need to respond to those comments. And what I said stands. I rarely comment here anymore. I have as much right to be here as you do.
    - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
      Actually you just dodged the cogent response you received. Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Then you framed your reply in terms of Mexico only, which ignored places like El Salvador, although maybe that’s just more “Mexico” in your mind? Point being, you’ve gotten many good replies, you just don’t like them, which is hardly the same as them being indefensible. You have every right to be here, but less of a right to throw a tantrum about leaving while being here. That’s just rude. It’s only right to have some respect for the platform and people who use and maintain it while you use it.
      - downandout 8y ago
        I responded to that comment up above. I focused on Mexico because that is by far the largest source of illegal immigrants to the US. Not a single reply has answered my question as to why anyone would endorse illegal immigration. Many countries have many problems, we cannot just take in all of their residents. I think it’s terrible that families are being separated. But I don’t know of another solution when their parents are choosing to bring their children with them to commit a crime.
        eeeuo 8y ago
        The solution is to not separate them. You're not arguing in good faith when you suggest that the two possible binary outcomes are (a) unrestricted immigration or (b) separating kids from their parents. Many of the illegal immigrants come to the border to flee violence or crippling poverty. They have to bring their kids. If they had the time or the income or the support system to migrate legally, they would. With regards to your original point, I fail to see why Americans are not within their rights to protest laws that they feel are unjust. The employees understood that they may be fired for their views, but they did it because they could not in good conscience perform the work. You ignored the immediate reply about Jim Crow laws, but it's a good comparison. Would you also be angry with people that did not want to enforce Jim Crow laws?
        downandout 8y ago
        I fail to see why Americans are not within their rights to protest laws that they feel are unjust So you feel that restrictions on immigration are unjust? The law doesn't say that children must be seperated from their parents at the border. That's simply a natural consequence of breaking the law - the parent goes to jail, and something has to be done with any children they chose to bring to the crime scene. US citizens are jailed everyday, for small things like driving without a license, and if their kids are in the car, those kids go to Child Protective Services. In many cases, the parents can't afford to bail out and the children wind up in foster homes for months or years while the parent serves their sentence and then fights to get custody back. This is all very ugly, but it all starts with a conscious decision to break the law with children in tow.
    - evanlivingston 8y ago
      I expressed a position upthread but you didn't reply.
      - downandout 8y ago
        I actually did reply to your comment about unethical laws. It isn't a law that children and parents must be separated at the border; that would indeed be unethical. But part of the whole scheme of crime and punishment is that when you break the law, you go to jail. So when these parents choose to break the law, by default, the parents and children wind up separated because the parent chose to break the law and is now in custody.
    - PrimHelios 8y ago
      >No one actually expressed any defensible position, and they still haven’t No, nobody has given you a position you agree with. You can't just say "EVERYTHING I DISAGREE WITH IS INDEFENSIBLE HURR DURR", that's not how things work. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant, but you clearly can't see that, so arguing with you is just a waste of time. Grow up.
      - downandout 8y ago
        Nobody has given me anything to agree with or not. They just say that my position is wrong, and have no solutions.
        PrimHelios 8y ago
        You have had 2, but I guess they don't count. Watch this: Our economy depends on """illegal""" immigrants in order to survive things like harvest season.
        downandout 8y ago
        It doesn't count when people say we should just open up the borders to anyone that claims that their country is poor or that life in Mexico kind of sucks. I feel bad for them, but that doesn't mean we can take care of them over here. So the "let's let all of Mexico in and we can hold hands and sing kum ba yah" position is not defensible. Also, why the quotes around "illegal"? When you enter a country illegally, you are an illegal immigrant. Has PC culture gotten so out of hand that simply using the proper legal terminology is now offensive?
        PrimHelios 8y ago
        >It doesn't count when So yeah, everything you disagree with doesn't count. Thanks for wasting my time.
        downandout 8y ago

downandout 8y ago

Speeding is an infraction (that’s a legal term). Misdemeanors are crimes punishable by up to 364 days in prison. These two things are not remotely close to one another.

DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
For the love of god, stick to the rant in your profile. As of May 28, 2018, after nearly 7 years and over 13K karma points, I am no longer going to be very active on HN. This used to be a place where thoughtful conversation could take place; now it's nothing more than a den of bullies attempting to spread misinformation that supports their political views. Enjoy your echo chamber everyone. The irony given the sheer volume of moral panic and pearl clutching around “illegals” here makes it self-parody.
- downandout 8y ago
  I actually started this this with 1 comment genuinely asking how people could possibly endorse illegal immigration. No one actually expressed any defensible position, and they still haven’t. When people reply, I need to respond to those comments. And what I said stands. I rarely comment here anymore. I have as much right to be here as you do.
  - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
    Actually you just dodged the cogent response you received. Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Then you framed your reply in terms of Mexico only, which ignored places like El Salvador, although maybe that’s just more “Mexico” in your mind? Point being, you’ve gotten many good replies, you just don’t like them, which is hardly the same as them being indefensible. You have every right to be here, but less of a right to throw a tantrum about leaving while being here. That’s just rude. It’s only right to have some respect for the platform and people who use and maintain it while you use it.
    - downandout 8y ago
      I responded to that comment up above. I focused on Mexico because that is by far the largest source of illegal immigrants to the US. Not a single reply has answered my question as to why anyone would endorse illegal immigration. Many countries have many problems, we cannot just take in all of their residents. I think it’s terrible that families are being separated. But I don’t know of another solution when their parents are choosing to bring their children with them to commit a crime.
      - eeeuo 8y ago
        The solution is to not separate them. You're not arguing in good faith when you suggest that the two possible binary outcomes are (a) unrestricted immigration or (b) separating kids from their parents. Many of the illegal immigrants come to the border to flee violence or crippling poverty. They have to bring their kids. If they had the time or the income or the support system to migrate legally, they would. With regards to your original point, I fail to see why Americans are not within their rights to protest laws that they feel are unjust. The employees understood that they may be fired for their views, but they did it because they could not in good conscience perform the work. You ignored the immediate reply about Jim Crow laws, but it's a good comparison. Would you also be angry with people that did not want to enforce Jim Crow laws?
        downandout 8y ago
        I fail to see why Americans are not within their rights to protest laws that they feel are unjust So you feel that restrictions on immigration are unjust? The law doesn't say that children must be seperated from their parents at the border. That's simply a natural consequence of breaking the law - the parent goes to jail, and something has to be done with any children they chose to bring to the crime scene. US citizens are jailed everyday, for small things like driving without a license, and if their kids are in the car, those kids go to Child Protective Services. In many cases, the parents can't afford to bail out and the children wind up in foster homes for months or years while the parent serves their sentence and then fights to get custody back. This is all very ugly, but it all starts with a conscious decision to break the law with children in tow.
  - evanlivingston 8y ago
    I expressed a position upthread but you didn't reply.
    - downandout 8y ago
      I actually did reply to your comment about unethical laws. It isn't a law that children and parents must be separated at the border; that would indeed be unethical. But part of the whole scheme of crime and punishment is that when you break the law, you go to jail. So when these parents choose to break the law, by default, the parents and children wind up separated because the parent chose to break the law and is now in custody.
  - PrimHelios 8y ago
    >No one actually expressed any defensible position, and they still haven’t No, nobody has given you a position you agree with. You can't just say "EVERYTHING I DISAGREE WITH IS INDEFENSIBLE HURR DURR", that's not how things work. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant, but you clearly can't see that, so arguing with you is just a waste of time. Grow up.
    - downandout 8y ago
      Nobody has given me anything to agree with or not. They just say that my position is wrong, and have no solutions.
      - PrimHelios 8y ago
        You have had 2, but I guess they don't count. Watch this: Our economy depends on """illegal""" immigrants in order to survive things like harvest season.
        downandout 8y ago
        It doesn't count when people say we should just open up the borders to anyone that claims that their country is poor or that life in Mexico kind of sucks. I feel bad for them, but that doesn't mean we can take care of them over here. So the "let's let all of Mexico in and we can hold hands and sing kum ba yah" position is not defensible. Also, why the quotes around "illegal"? When you enter a country illegally, you are an illegal immigrant. Has PC culture gotten so out of hand that simply using the proper legal terminology is now offensive?
        PrimHelios 8y ago
        >It doesn't count when So yeah, everything you disagree with doesn't count. Thanks for wasting my time.
        downandout 8y ago