4 ms·

babies and toddlers of immigrants crossing the border illegally are being separated from their parents in the hundreds. We have no evidence that these parents h

babies and toddlers of immigrants crossing the border illegally are being separated from their parents in the hundreds. We have no evidence that these parents have been charged with violent or other crimes of a nature that might justify the separation for the children's safety. When parents commit crimes, they are going to wind up being separated from their children. This is a consequence of breaking the law - you commit a crime, and then you go to jail. Your children can’t be with you in jail, so you get separated. The evidence that they have committed a crime in the case of illegal entry is by default - they couldn’t be arrested by the US border patrol unless they violated the law, because the US border patrol doesn’t arrest people in Mexico, they arrest them in the US. So, in order to support these parents not being separated from their children, you have to support not prosecuting people for illegally entering the country. That, by definition, means you have to be in favor of illegal immigration.

maxerickson 8y ago
Sure, lots of people actually are in favor of the sort of illegal immigration where if people seek asylum they are not prosecuted for the misdemeanor border crossing at least until their asylum application is rejected (and maybe they just aren't prosecuted). But why would the "greatest" country in the world use any nuance when dealing with vulnerable people, right, nuance is for rich people and their powerful lawyers, not for people fleeing death. I dare you to be specific when you make your arguments about law and order. Own the specifics. Proper procedure is a very important part of seeking asylum and all that. Don't hide behind words like "commit crimes" and "violated the law", actually say "misdemeanor border crossing".
- downandout 8y ago
  Are misdemeanors not crimes? The term misdemeanor simply means that it is a crime punishable by up to 364 days in prison. Further, illegal reentry is a felony, and in many of these cases, it’s reentry.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Nothing in my comment prompts your question, I don't even come close to denying that misdemeanors are crimes. My point is that bloviating about law and order when the crime is minor and the danger (in many cases) is real, is pathetic. It'd be less pathetic to make it clear that you think that babies should be taken away from mothers that have merely crossed the border away from an official port of entry.
    - downandout 8y ago
      It'd be less pathetic to make it clear that you think that babies should be taken away from mothers that have merely crossed the border away from an official port of entry. When did I say that? I just think that mothers shouldn’t be bringing their babies to illegally enter the country in the first place.
      - EGreg 8y ago
        I say this as a liberal. So the US government: 1. Incarcerates people for the victimless “crime” of taking drugs 2. Takes away their kids and sticks them in foster homes or worse 3. Enriches drug gangs in Mexico thru criminalizing their competition in the US 4. Catches families trying to escape the gangs by coming to the US for asylum 5. Punishes the kids for yet another victimless crime of crossing the US border I would like to ask the Christian child-loving, Bible-following voters: Is America great yet?
16bytes 8y ago
Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Is it reasonable to separate children for a few hours to process the adults? Sure. This is what border control does before handing people over to ICE. But there are 2000 kids that ICE has separated for longer than a week (even months) and even placed in social care. You wouldn't do that if one was caught speeding, but for illegal crossings it's ok?
- downandout 8y ago
  Speeding is an infraction (that’s a legal term). Misdemeanors are crimes punishable by up to 364 days in prison. These two things are not remotely close to one another.
  - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
    For the love of god, stick to the rant in your profile. As of May 28, 2018, after nearly 7 years and over 13K karma points, I am no longer going to be very active on HN. This used to be a place where thoughtful conversation could take place; now it's nothing more than a den of bullies attempting to spread misinformation that supports their political views. Enjoy your echo chamber everyone. The irony given the sheer volume of moral panic and pearl clutching around “illegals” here makes it self-parody.
    - downandout 8y ago
      I actually started this this with 1 comment genuinely asking how people could possibly endorse illegal immigration. No one actually expressed any defensible position, and they still haven’t. When people reply, I need to respond to those comments. And what I said stands. I rarely comment here anymore. I have as much right to be here as you do.
      - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
        Actually you just dodged the cogent response you received. Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Then you framed your reply in terms of Mexico only, which ignored places like El Salvador, although maybe that’s just more “Mexico” in your mind? Point being, you’ve gotten many good replies, you just don’t like them, which is hardly the same as them being indefensible. You have every right to be here, but less of a right to throw a tantrum about leaving while being here. That’s just rude. It’s only right to have some respect for the platform and people who use and maintain it while you use it.
jaredklewis 8y ago
ICE under the supervision of past administrations has been been dealing with people entering illegally (including prosecution) for more than a decade. It has never resulted in mass separation of families until now. For example, in 2014, when large waves of immigrants fleeing violence in central America entered the US illegally and were apprehended by ICE, they were detained in family detention centers where children and parents were together. Your suggestion that the only two choices are support for illegal immigration or support for separating babies and toddlers from families isn't supported by reality.

maxerickson 8y ago

Sure, lots of people actually are in favor of the sort of illegal immigration where if people seek asylum they are not prosecuted for the misdemeanor border crossing at least until their asylum application is rejected (and maybe they just aren't prosecuted). But why would the "greatest" country in the world use any nuance when dealing with vulnerable people, right, nuance is for rich people and their powerful lawyers, not for people fleeing death. I dare you to be specific when you make your arguments about law and order. Own the specifics. Proper procedure is a very important part of seeking asylum and all that. Don't hide behind words like "commit crimes" and "violated the law", actually say "misdemeanor border crossing".

downandout 8y ago
Are misdemeanors not crimes? The term misdemeanor simply means that it is a crime punishable by up to 364 days in prison. Further, illegal reentry is a felony, and in many of these cases, it’s reentry.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Nothing in my comment prompts your question, I don't even come close to denying that misdemeanors are crimes. My point is that bloviating about law and order when the crime is minor and the danger (in many cases) is real, is pathetic. It'd be less pathetic to make it clear that you think that babies should be taken away from mothers that have merely crossed the border away from an official port of entry.
  - downandout 8y ago
    It'd be less pathetic to make it clear that you think that babies should be taken away from mothers that have merely crossed the border away from an official port of entry. When did I say that? I just think that mothers shouldn’t be bringing their babies to illegally enter the country in the first place.
    - EGreg 8y ago
      I say this as a liberal. So the US government: 1. Incarcerates people for the victimless “crime” of taking drugs 2. Takes away their kids and sticks them in foster homes or worse 3. Enriches drug gangs in Mexico thru criminalizing their competition in the US 4. Catches families trying to escape the gangs by coming to the US for asylum 5. Punishes the kids for yet another victimless crime of crossing the US border I would like to ask the Christian child-loving, Bible-following voters: Is America great yet?

16bytes 8y ago

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Is it reasonable to separate children for a few hours to process the adults? Sure. This is what border control does before handing people over to ICE. But there are 2000 kids that ICE has separated for longer than a week (even months) and even placed in social care. You wouldn't do that if one was caught speeding, but for illegal crossings it's ok?

downandout 8y ago
Speeding is an infraction (that’s a legal term). Misdemeanors are crimes punishable by up to 364 days in prison. These two things are not remotely close to one another.
- DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
  For the love of god, stick to the rant in your profile. As of May 28, 2018, after nearly 7 years and over 13K karma points, I am no longer going to be very active on HN. This used to be a place where thoughtful conversation could take place; now it's nothing more than a den of bullies attempting to spread misinformation that supports their political views. Enjoy your echo chamber everyone. The irony given the sheer volume of moral panic and pearl clutching around “illegals” here makes it self-parody.
  - downandout 8y ago
    I actually started this this with 1 comment genuinely asking how people could possibly endorse illegal immigration. No one actually expressed any defensible position, and they still haven’t. When people reply, I need to respond to those comments. And what I said stands. I rarely comment here anymore. I have as much right to be here as you do.
    - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
      Actually you just dodged the cogent response you received. Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Then you framed your reply in terms of Mexico only, which ignored places like El Salvador, although maybe that’s just more “Mexico” in your mind? Point being, you’ve gotten many good replies, you just don’t like them, which is hardly the same as them being indefensible. You have every right to be here, but less of a right to throw a tantrum about leaving while being here. That’s just rude. It’s only right to have some respect for the platform and people who use and maintain it while you use it.

jaredklewis 8y ago

ICE under the supervision of past administrations has been been dealing with people entering illegally (including prosecution) for more than a decade. It has never resulted in mass separation of families until now. For example, in 2014, when large waves of immigrants fleeing violence in central America entered the US illegally and were apprehended by ICE, they were detained in family detention centers where children and parents were together. Your suggestion that the only two choices are support for illegal immigration or support for separating babies and toddlers from families isn't supported by reality.