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I have noticed that people following machine orders is also used by corporations to force customers to give up on their rights. I have a minor dispute with one

by zby 8y ago

I have noticed that people following machine orders is also used by corporations to force customers to give up on their rights. I have a minor dispute with one of our communication providers and it is a real nightmare - according to the law I have the right, but the system does not include it and people don't know what to do in this case. Some other people higher up just wait until I give up.

Rjevski 8y ago
Don’t pay the invoice until they either fix it or let it go (they can’t go to court as you’re in the right from a legal point of view). That’s what I always do with shitty utility providers - it’s funny how the “computer says no” excuse suddenly disappears when they start to be out of pocket.
- UweSchmidt 8y ago
  Careful, automatic processes can give you trouble, cancel your service or hurt your credit rating. I recommend complying with the process, mentally account for the extra costs when you sign up, stick to defaults and avoid complexity whenever possible. On the other hand nowadays companies do respond to complaints much better than a few decades ago if you file complaints through their websites. Taking it to social media may also result in quick and drastic measures.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    > cancel your service By the time I arrive to this stage, I’ve already got a replacement lined up and all it takes is to flick a switch. > hurt your credit rating From experience, the problem eventually gets resolved and they cancel any black marks on your credit report. But personally I never cared about mine anyway.
    - vinceguidry 8y ago
      The other thing about credit reports is that 1) companies not in the business of providing credit have an uphill battle to claim that you're indebted to them, and 2) you can challenge such things, and the law requires them to show evidence. Due process has favored debtors for some time now, but the information isn't published, leaving shady "credit cleanup" companies to charge hundreds to do what you can do in many cases simply by logging into a website.
- wolfi1 8y ago
  that could pose a problem in some European countries as it is very easy to get a court order (no humans involved, it`s an automated process) to collect the money from you. it would be your duty to prove you don`t have to pay.
  - workinthehead 8y ago
    Interesting, as the duty of proof is the other way around in the US, but usually it seems to be the EU that favors the little guy.
    - wolfi1 8y ago
      the burden of proof would be on the plaintiff`s side, but as I said as it`s automated the defendant has to act, if he fails to do so in a certain amount of time the court order becomes effective
dewiz 8y ago
That’s very common with badly designed anomaly detection systems. Customer support say the system has detected something wrong in the customer behavior and ask, often order, to stop or fix whatever they’re doing. Neither customers nor support are able to intervene
- toomuchgov 8y ago
  GDPR definitely addresses this scenario.
  - pc86 8y ago
    How?
daxelrod 8y ago
A leasing agent for my apartment put the wrong (slightly cheaper) rent amount on our lease, and only realized as we were moving in, well after all parties had signed. She told us we needed to sign a corrected lease because there was no way to make the rent billing system charge us the lower amount. We explained to her that the building’s legal obligations trumped what their computer would do. They figured out how to change the amount in their billing system.
cdubzzz 8y ago
Contact the FCC: https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us My wife is a victim of the OPM breach and had someone apply for (and in some cases open) numerous accounts with her data. One of those accounts was with T-Mobile and after three months of phone calls and strongly worded bills we filed an FCC complaint. A T-Mobile rep called us two days later and the issue was resolved (or so it seems anyway, haven’t heard anything in the past few weeks).
otakucode 8y ago
I encountered that several years ago. Federal law says that if you request a cable box with an enabled Firewire port, cable companies are required to provide it. I requested such a box from my local Time Warner cable TV company. They had no clue what I was talking about and said their software had no facility to let them enable the Firewire port on my box. So I called the State Utilities Commission in my state. I explained the situation, and that the cable company was violating federal law. The next day I got a call from the owner of the local Time Warner franchise personally. They managed to find a way once they were in danger of having their license to operate in the state revoked. "Make game of that which makes as much of thee." is a quote from a book thousands of years old (The Rubiyat by Omar Khayaam) but it is as applicable as ever.

by zby 8y ago

Rjevski 8y ago

Don’t pay the invoice until they either fix it or let it go (they can’t go to court as you’re in the right from a legal point of view). That’s what I always do with shitty utility providers - it’s funny how the “computer says no” excuse suddenly disappears when they start to be out of pocket.

UweSchmidt 8y ago
Careful, automatic processes can give you trouble, cancel your service or hurt your credit rating. I recommend complying with the process, mentally account for the extra costs when you sign up, stick to defaults and avoid complexity whenever possible. On the other hand nowadays companies do respond to complaints much better than a few decades ago if you file complaints through their websites. Taking it to social media may also result in quick and drastic measures.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  > cancel your service By the time I arrive to this stage, I’ve already got a replacement lined up and all it takes is to flick a switch. > hurt your credit rating From experience, the problem eventually gets resolved and they cancel any black marks on your credit report. But personally I never cared about mine anyway.
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    The other thing about credit reports is that 1) companies not in the business of providing credit have an uphill battle to claim that you're indebted to them, and 2) you can challenge such things, and the law requires them to show evidence. Due process has favored debtors for some time now, but the information isn't published, leaving shady "credit cleanup" companies to charge hundreds to do what you can do in many cases simply by logging into a website.
wolfi1 8y ago
that could pose a problem in some European countries as it is very easy to get a court order (no humans involved, it`s an automated process) to collect the money from you. it would be your duty to prove you don`t have to pay.
- workinthehead 8y ago
  Interesting, as the duty of proof is the other way around in the US, but usually it seems to be the EU that favors the little guy.
  - wolfi1 8y ago
    the burden of proof would be on the plaintiff`s side, but as I said as it`s automated the defendant has to act, if he fails to do so in a certain amount of time the court order becomes effective

dewiz 8y ago

That’s very common with badly designed anomaly detection systems. Customer support say the system has detected something wrong in the customer behavior and ask, often order, to stop or fix whatever they’re doing. Neither customers nor support are able to intervene

toomuchgov 8y ago
GDPR definitely addresses this scenario.
- pc86 8y ago
  How?

daxelrod 8y ago

A leasing agent for my apartment put the wrong (slightly cheaper) rent amount on our lease, and only realized as we were moving in, well after all parties had signed. She told us we needed to sign a corrected lease because there was no way to make the rent billing system charge us the lower amount. We explained to her that the building’s legal obligations trumped what their computer would do. They figured out how to change the amount in their billing system.

cdubzzz 8y ago

Contact the FCC: https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us My wife is a victim of the OPM breach and had someone apply for (and in some cases open) numerous accounts with her data. One of those accounts was with T-Mobile and after three months of phone calls and strongly worded bills we filed an FCC complaint. A T-Mobile rep called us two days later and the issue was resolved (or so it seems anyway, haven’t heard anything in the past few weeks).

otakucode 8y ago

I encountered that several years ago. Federal law says that if you request a cable box with an enabled Firewire port, cable companies are required to provide it. I requested such a box from my local Time Warner cable TV company. They had no clue what I was talking about and said their software had no facility to let them enable the Firewire port on my box. So I called the State Utilities Commission in my state. I explained the situation, and that the cable company was violating federal law. The next day I got a call from the owner of the local Time Warner franchise personally. They managed to find a way once they were in danger of having their license to operate in the state revoked. "Make game of that which makes as much of thee." is a quote from a book thousands of years old (The Rubiyat by Omar Khayaam) but it is as applicable as ever.