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1. There's another billion waiting to enter. 2. There is legal process of entry, they should follow it. 3. Illegal immigration drives down wages, crowding out

1. There's another billion waiting to enter. 2. There is legal process of entry, they should follow it. 3. Illegal immigration drives down wages, crowding out the most vulnerable citizens of the US. 4. A country decides how and when people are allowed in. There are numerous downsides to mass immigration including stress on services like health, social services and accommodation. Again, to the detriment of citizens.

chris_wot 8y ago
What evidence do you have that wages have been driven down illegal immigration?
- factsaresacred 8y ago
  Availability of cheap labor reduces wages within any industry - this is almost an axiom. But just read an economics book or a study like this one: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/ http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings... > in the unskilled and semi-skilled service sector, a 1% rise in the share of migrants reduced average wages in that occupation by nearly 0.5% It may seems small but those numbers are variables and for people on the lowest rung of the ladder, every percent counts.
drb91 8y ago
> There's another billion waiting to enter. I think you’re vastly overestimating how much people want to move here. Furthermore, legal immigration would not lower wages. It’s the fact that we don’t provide a legalization process that allows people to charge under minimum wage.
- factsaresacred 8y ago
  > I think you’re vastly overestimating how much people want to move here. I am not. The US is still the top destination for migrants. > legal immigration would not lower wages I agree. We're talking about illegal immigration though. If everybody followed the legal process, great!
  - pluma 8y ago
    > I am not. The US is still the top destination for migrants. Is it? Most numbers seem to compare individual countries, which disproportionally overrepresents the US due to its sheer size. However by comparison, in 2016 [0][1]: * 1.49 million immigrants moved to the US * 2 million immigrants moved to the EU * 753,060 immigrants were naturalized in the US * 1 million immigrants were granted citizenship in the EU So I guess that's another category in which the US has been superseded by the EU (like e.g. GDP, exports and tourism). [0]: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested... [1]: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... EDIT: If you think this is an unfair comparison, remember that EU citizenship grants you the right to live and work in any EU country. Citizenship in any one member country is effectively for most intents and purposes citizenship in all of the EU. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_Un...
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    In other words, driving immigrants underground rather than giving them status (which is practically impossible for most people to get except through marriage) makes it possible for employers to underpay them and abuse them and assume they won't complain.
pluma 8y ago
1. Stop believing in your own propaganda. There are nicer places to immigrate to than the US. 2. The only way to be granted asylum is if you're already in the US. The only way to enter the US legally is using an intentionally overloaded system that may require you to wait for months only to be denied entry -- which is not exactly an option if you're genuinely in need of asylum. 3. Corporations drive down wages. Corporations are exploiting illegal immigrants. Maybe the problem is your government isn't cracking down on illegal employment enough? 4a. I see you don't agree with the concept of asylum. That's okay, but it still makes you a terrible human being. Just saying. 4b. Show me a study that proves that immigration is a long-term net negative. There are cherry-picked samples showing short-term negatives, yes, but they're intentionally misleading.

chris_wot 8y ago

What evidence do you have that wages have been driven down illegal immigration?

factsaresacred 8y ago
Availability of cheap labor reduces wages within any industry - this is almost an axiom. But just read an economics book or a study like this one: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/ http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings... > in the unskilled and semi-skilled service sector, a 1% rise in the share of migrants reduced average wages in that occupation by nearly 0.5% It may seems small but those numbers are variables and for people on the lowest rung of the ladder, every percent counts.

drb91 8y ago

> There's another billion waiting to enter. I think you’re vastly overestimating how much people want to move here. Furthermore, legal immigration would not lower wages. It’s the fact that we don’t provide a legalization process that allows people to charge under minimum wage.

factsaresacred 8y ago
> I think you’re vastly overestimating how much people want to move here. I am not. The US is still the top destination for migrants. > legal immigration would not lower wages I agree. We're talking about illegal immigration though. If everybody followed the legal process, great!
- pluma 8y ago
  > I am not. The US is still the top destination for migrants. Is it? Most numbers seem to compare individual countries, which disproportionally overrepresents the US due to its sheer size. However by comparison, in 2016 [0][1]: * 1.49 million immigrants moved to the US * 2 million immigrants moved to the EU * 753,060 immigrants were naturalized in the US * 1 million immigrants were granted citizenship in the EU So I guess that's another category in which the US has been superseded by the EU (like e.g. GDP, exports and tourism). [0]: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested... [1]: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... EDIT: If you think this is an unfair comparison, remember that EU citizenship grants you the right to live and work in any EU country. Citizenship in any one member country is effectively for most intents and purposes citizenship in all of the EU. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_Un...
- emodendroket 8y ago
  In other words, driving immigrants underground rather than giving them status (which is practically impossible for most people to get except through marriage) makes it possible for employers to underpay them and abuse them and assume they won't complain.

pluma 8y ago

1. Stop believing in your own propaganda. There are nicer places to immigrate to than the US. 2. The only way to be granted asylum is if you're already in the US. The only way to enter the US legally is using an intentionally overloaded system that may require you to wait for months only to be denied entry -- which is not exactly an option if you're genuinely in need of asylum. 3. Corporations drive down wages. Corporations are exploiting illegal immigrants. Maybe the problem is your government isn't cracking down on illegal employment enough? 4a. I see you don't agree with the concept of asylum. That's okay, but it still makes you a terrible human being. Just saying. 4b. Show me a study that proves that immigration is a long-term net negative. There are cherry-picked samples showing short-term negatives, yes, but they're intentionally misleading.