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> I think that what we’re seeing right now with ICE is deeply immoral. It’s a violation of human rights on all kinds of levels. Treating criminals as criminals

> I think that what we’re seeing right now with ICE is deeply immoral. It’s a violation of human rights on all kinds of levels. Treating criminals as criminals happens every day in every country and comes with the same consequences - children are separated from their parents. Right now there are tens of thousands of broken black homes as one or two parents are in prison - where's the outrage for them and what about their human rights and their families? This moral panic, fanned by the media, truly reflects an inability for critical thought. Illegal aliens ignore US law, knowing full well that their acts are illegal and have consequences. Go to a port of entry or embassy like all other immigrants. It's that simple.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
zasz 8y ago
These people are asylum seekers. What they are doing is literally not illegal. According to USCIS, asylum seekers must be physically present in the US to apply: To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status. https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/ob... These people are being punished for following the law. Additionally, there is no need to detain parents separately from children, and prior to the Trump administration, while deportations of asylum seekers did happen, families were not split up. > Right now there are tens of thousands of broken black homes as one or two parents are in prison - where's the outrage for them and what about their human rights and their families? Nice of you to pretend to care. Can I refer you to your closest Black Lives Matter chapter?
- macspoofing 8y ago
  The legal way to claim asylum is to do so from official points of entry.
  - evfanknitram 8y ago
    So if you are out of resources, cross the border at another point and then seek asylum the proper response it to lock up your kids.
    - macspoofing 8y ago
      >the proper response it to lock up your kids. The irony is that the ninth circuit ruling mandating separation was done to prevent locking up children. And no, it's not the proper response but it is the legal one as it stands today. GoP is working on a clean bill to do away with seperation. Democrats are expected to vote against it. So there's that.
  - woodruffw 8y ago
    No. The legal way to claim asylum is to do so within a year of entering the country, regardless of whether your entry was official[1]. The US is currently breaking its commitment to the 1951 UN convention on the rights of refugees by not ignoring "irregular entry." [1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
    - firic 8y ago
      Sure, they may apply for asylum. However, if they entered illegally, then they should be detained so that if they are not accepted for asylum then they can get deported.
      - woodruffw 8y ago
        First: They are not entering illegally if they intend to report within a year. Entering illegally is something that non-refugees do. This is why Nielsen's claims about "criminal refugees" are misleading at best -- she's talking about the "crime" of entering the country in the way we explicitly allow. Second: Consider what an actual refugee crisis looks like. You can't detain hundreds of thousands of people crossing over a massive border, both for logistical and humanitarian reasons. That's why we're a signatory to the 1951 agreement. This is probably what 45 is referring to when he talks about a "loophole" in immigration law, and why he feels politically safe asking for a legislative rather than executive solution. But to be absolutely clear: nothing about our current laws requires that we separate children from their parents, or detain refugee applicants indefinitely. Those are both cruel options, chosen to terrorize an already vulnerable population.
- star-castle 8y ago
  > Nice of you to pretend to care. Every few weeks a focus group comes up with a mantra or slogan and the media blasts it like it's the new Justin Beiber track. The current mantra is "SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM PARENTS", which you're not supposed to think too deeply about (is it inherently a bad thing? Not if we like CPS. Not if 'asylum seekers' are known to be kidnapping other people's children so that they can accompany a minor into the country. Not if putting adults and children in the same facility is going to lead to horrible abuse.) You didn't care before this dumb slogan came out, and in a few weeks when the next one comes out (probably something about Russia), you'll stop caring again.
  - sctb 8y ago
    We just asked you to please comment according to the guidelines, which you've been breaking left-right-and-center, so we've banned the account. We're happy to unban accounts if you email hn@ycombinator.com and we believe you'll start posting civilly and thoughtfully. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Karishma1234 8y ago
Not at all. Children are not separated because you used your prescription medicine after its end date. Children are not separated because you ran a red light. Border crossing is merely misdemeanor and most of them are just seeking asylum. > Illegal aliens ignore US law, knowing full well that their acts are illegal and have consequences. Go to a port of entry or embassy like all other immigrants. It's that simple. Most of them actually come to a proper border patrol station to seek asylum. Again, US laws need to change if we need to better help these people.
- firic 8y ago
  Running a red light usually does not result in arrest. But if someone ran a red light and then refused to show their license and got arrested. Well, if their child was with them, then the child would not be put in the same prison that the parent was put in. ie. they would be separated. I didn't read the law so I may be mistaken, but based on my understanding is someone comes to a proper boarder control and claims asylum then they will not be arrested. The ones being arrested are the ones who are crossing illegally and then when caught, claiming asylum.
  - cr1895 8y ago
    >I didn't read the law so I may be mistaken You can read about the asylum process here: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/ob...
    - firic 8y ago
      I should have been more precise with what I wrote. I do not understand legalese and therefore base my understanding on a group of people who I feel are honest.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

zasz 8y ago

These people are asylum seekers. What they are doing is literally not illegal. According to USCIS, asylum seekers must be physically present in the US to apply: To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status. https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/ob... These people are being punished for following the law. Additionally, there is no need to detain parents separately from children, and prior to the Trump administration, while deportations of asylum seekers did happen, families were not split up. > Right now there are tens of thousands of broken black homes as one or two parents are in prison - where's the outrage for them and what about their human rights and their families? Nice of you to pretend to care. Can I refer you to your closest Black Lives Matter chapter?

macspoofing 8y ago
The legal way to claim asylum is to do so from official points of entry.
- evfanknitram 8y ago
  So if you are out of resources, cross the border at another point and then seek asylum the proper response it to lock up your kids.
  - macspoofing 8y ago
    >the proper response it to lock up your kids. The irony is that the ninth circuit ruling mandating separation was done to prevent locking up children. And no, it's not the proper response but it is the legal one as it stands today. GoP is working on a clean bill to do away with seperation. Democrats are expected to vote against it. So there's that.
- woodruffw 8y ago
  No. The legal way to claim asylum is to do so within a year of entering the country, regardless of whether your entry was official[1]. The US is currently breaking its commitment to the 1951 UN convention on the rights of refugees by not ignoring "irregular entry." [1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
  - firic 8y ago
    Sure, they may apply for asylum. However, if they entered illegally, then they should be detained so that if they are not accepted for asylum then they can get deported.
    - woodruffw 8y ago
      First: They are not entering illegally if they intend to report within a year. Entering illegally is something that non-refugees do. This is why Nielsen's claims about "criminal refugees" are misleading at best -- she's talking about the "crime" of entering the country in the way we explicitly allow. Second: Consider what an actual refugee crisis looks like. You can't detain hundreds of thousands of people crossing over a massive border, both for logistical and humanitarian reasons. That's why we're a signatory to the 1951 agreement. This is probably what 45 is referring to when he talks about a "loophole" in immigration law, and why he feels politically safe asking for a legislative rather than executive solution. But to be absolutely clear: nothing about our current laws requires that we separate children from their parents, or detain refugee applicants indefinitely. Those are both cruel options, chosen to terrorize an already vulnerable population.
star-castle 8y ago
> Nice of you to pretend to care. Every few weeks a focus group comes up with a mantra or slogan and the media blasts it like it's the new Justin Beiber track. The current mantra is "SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM PARENTS", which you're not supposed to think too deeply about (is it inherently a bad thing? Not if we like CPS. Not if 'asylum seekers' are known to be kidnapping other people's children so that they can accompany a minor into the country. Not if putting adults and children in the same facility is going to lead to horrible abuse.) You didn't care before this dumb slogan came out, and in a few weeks when the next one comes out (probably something about Russia), you'll stop caring again.
- sctb 8y ago
  We just asked you to please comment according to the guidelines, which you've been breaking left-right-and-center, so we've banned the account. We're happy to unban accounts if you email hn@ycombinator.com and we believe you'll start posting civilly and thoughtfully. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Karishma1234 8y ago

Not at all. Children are not separated because you used your prescription medicine after its end date. Children are not separated because you ran a red light. Border crossing is merely misdemeanor and most of them are just seeking asylum. > Illegal aliens ignore US law, knowing full well that their acts are illegal and have consequences. Go to a port of entry or embassy like all other immigrants. It's that simple. Most of them actually come to a proper border patrol station to seek asylum. Again, US laws need to change if we need to better help these people.

firic 8y ago
Running a red light usually does not result in arrest. But if someone ran a red light and then refused to show their license and got arrested. Well, if their child was with them, then the child would not be put in the same prison that the parent was put in. ie. they would be separated. I didn't read the law so I may be mistaken, but based on my understanding is someone comes to a proper boarder control and claims asylum then they will not be arrested. The ones being arrested are the ones who are crossing illegally and then when caught, claiming asylum.
- cr1895 8y ago
  >I didn't read the law so I may be mistaken You can read about the asylum process here: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/ob...
  - firic 8y ago
    I should have been more precise with what I wrote. I do not understand legalese and therefore base my understanding on a group of people who I feel are honest.