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Should any substance which enhances the risk of schizophrenia be legalized? https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317170.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.co

Should any substance which enhances the risk of schizophrenia be legalized? https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317170.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317170.php It appears to me that if cannabis was a food additive with the same risk profile, no one would think it should be legal. I understand that the counter-argument is "What about tobacco/alcohol?" But those substances are already legal and there are no "equal opportunities" rights for drugs. Like if artificial sweeteners were invented today, they would either be banned or there would be harsh restrictions on how food producers could use them. Yes, tobacco kills a lot of people. But as many health experts think letting the tobacco companies sell cigarettes was one of the greatest mistakes of the 20th century, I fail to see how that is an argument. We fucked up once, so we need to do it again?

elchief 8y ago
The article states that age is a factor and children and teens are at risk. Marijuana age of consent is 19
- trixie_ 8y ago
  If you read any weed forum you’ll find endless posts of people who can’t smoke anymore because it causes paranoia and panic attacks. Same with me, used to be fun and now it causes anxiety. There are definitely some long term effects and changes to the brain that have not been sufficiently studied. Luckily it will be much easier now to do those studies.
  - gremlinsinc 8y ago
    I've never used, but even w/ health risks, it's better to legalize and decriminalize than send young mothers/fathers to jail and basically create cycle's of poverty. One of the biggest demographics of poverty in America is single-mother's who's bf's are incarcerated usually for drug offenses, though of course some might be gang and other criminal offenses - but still a lot of that has drug related connotations. If mj is regulated/sold openly then likely they won't be distributing on street corners and going to jail, or using and going to jail for possession, causing them to become even harder criminals by association and thus start life-long criminal careers, and giving up on being a good father, and provider. My philosophy is let anyone ingest anything they want (Tide pods are still legal), if they're stupid enough to die or maim themselves -- people shoot firecrackers from their hand and doesn't always end well - people just do stupid shit, but it's their choice/freedom to do so. Until they step over the line and injure others as a result of their stupid actions, let them have that freedom and the government should step out. The government should have help for those who need it to get into rehab/medical treatment and support those who want to get off hard drugs, but deal with it as a medical condition, not a criminal one. People should feel safe going to a hospital and saying I have a drug addiction and want to quit, please help me - without fear of going to jail. The government can prosecute blackmarket sales though, all night/day, I'm cool w/ that, I feel the end-user's are victims even though they choose to 'buy', I don't think they should be at fault for being a 'consumer' of goods, those capitalizing on it should be the only ones charged.
  - brandonsometig 8y ago
    Could be because of the insane THC levels in street cannabis. At least if it was legalised it could be regulated to be under a certain level.
    - trixie_ 8y ago
      In certain states the THC/CBD level must be posted on the packaging, but what is a safe level? It will take years to figure that out.
fbelzile 8y ago
> It appears to me that if cannabis was a food additive or sweetener with the same risk profile, no one would think it should be legal. It's not. It's a drug similar to alcohol and will be regulated as it should be.
msbarnett 8y ago
Alcohol, maternal stress, and gluten (according to about as many studies as identify cannabis) can also be contributory factors to the onset or kindling of schizophrenia. If prohibition is our answer to anything increasing the risk of development of schizophrenia, we’re going to be banning a lot of things.
rotred 8y ago
I agree, I think that it should have been decriminalized instead (similar to how it is in Portugal).
- slavik81 8y ago
  Decriminalization allows criminals to continue to profit from dealing drugs. Legalization will make it harder for them to fund their operations as they now will be competing against real businesses. No longer shall a willingness to engage in illicit activity be sufficient to succeed in this market.
lovich 8y ago
Alcohol has a risk of brain damage[1]. Acetaminophen increases the risk of liver damage and death [2]. There's an argument that we shouldn't allow risky chemicals, but if were being consistent then the risk of schizophrenia from pot use is right up there with the risks of lots of legal, over the counter chemicals [1]https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/alcohol-related-brain-damage https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/... [2]https://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm168830.htm https://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm168830.h...
- paulddraper 8y ago
  Yep. Think about all the US gun deaths you hear about (34k): homicides, suicides, law enforcement. [1] Then realize that alcohol's death toll is more than twice that (88k): liver disease, drunk driving, domestic abuse. [2] And tobacco is yet again over five times deadlier than alcohol (480k for smoking). [3] It is insane how many Americans die due to injesting poisonous substances. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta... [2] https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...
Lazare 8y ago
> Should any substance which enhances the risk of schizophrenia be legalized? Yes, of course. Substances that enhance the risk of death are legalised, after all. :) I think what you may mean is "does this specific substance present unacceptably high risks relative to the benefits?" And the answer from your link seems to be "no". Any attempt to make policy while only looking at the costs (or benefits) in isolation is doomed to failure.
cageface 8y ago
The question when considering legality of any substance isn't whether it's harmful or not. It's whether or not making it illegal prevents more social harm than it creates. At this point the evidence is in that criminalizing marijuana does far more social harm than good. It doesn't make sense to compare psychoactive drugs to food additives because people don't use food additives recreationally.
ValleyOfTheMtns 8y ago
>Should any substance which enhances the risk of schizophrenia be legalized? Sure, as long as the risks associated with legalising it are less destructive than keeping it illegal.
dilap 8y ago
I'd say yes. I think my own right put whatever substances I'd like into my own body is an inherent good that outweighs whatever other negative consequences there may be. (So I'd also like to heroin, meth, etc. legalized.) But even if you don't subscribe to that belief, it's pretty obvious that the ills of prohibition of cannabis far outweigh its very mild negative side-effects (which are far more minor than those of alcohol). Ungodly amounts of violence and suffering have been caused by drug cartels ability to monitize prohibition.
- gremlinsinc 8y ago
  I agree with this - on the receiving side. Users of heroine, meth, etc are victims or at least mental health cases. -- They need medical help, not criminalization. Prosecute the distribution channels all night and all day, but if we make it legal to 'use' and 'ingest' anything -- libertarian style (I'm a left-leaning technocratic democratic socialist), and only prosecute sales/distributions of banned substance, --it might make 'users' more open to coming forward and saying -- hey, I need help, this is destroying my life and I can't kick it without help. Instead of them thinking.. I need help, but fuck it -- if anyone finds out I'll go to jail.
scarface74 8y ago
How has making it illegal worked out or the entire “War on Drugs”? The only thing it has done is give more power to the “justice system” to lock up poor people and minorities for non violent crimes. Anything that takes a weapon out of the hands of law enforcement to unfairly lock up people, I’m all for.
0x4d464d48 8y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/following-marijuana-legalization-teen-drug-use-is-down-in-colorado/?utm_term=.3e278e3e2b60 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/follo... If you're hoping to reduce use amongst the general population, legalization seems to be a better course of action than prohibition. I don't think either of us are going to argue that no matter the legal status of marijuana there's always going to be a demand for it and a market. If you're primary objective is to mitigate harm to the public writ large, and not just scorning consumers, I can't think of anything more conducive than allowing for people to be open about their consumption habits without fear of legal reprisal so that healthy social norms and boundaries can be established. Further, if that market is always going to exist I'd imagine you'd rather see the proceeds be cycled into legitimate enterprises that actually support society as a whole and contribute taxes rather than the black economy, which is where it's inevitably forced. The pros far outweigh the cons here.
p1mrx 8y ago
Given the extent to which cannabis can alter thought, we should probably be systematically testing it against all the mental illnesses, with a focus on identifying the minimum effective dosage. Do we have sufficient evidence to say that cannabis can/cannot treat something like schizophrenia? Is it far-fetched to imagine the vaporizer becoming an ordinary medical device?
developer2 8y ago
1. From your link: "only the genetically susceptible mice developed schizophrenia-related changes after being exposed to cannabis". 2. As each argument against legalization fails to make a dent in public opinion, yet another takes its place. At some point, it is no longer about weighing the risks to come to a decision. Instead, critics have already decided that "marijuana is bad", and are looking to point to _anything_ that supports their agenda. That said... good job, Canada - we've done it!

elchief 8y ago

The article states that age is a factor and children and teens are at risk. Marijuana age of consent is 19

trixie_ 8y ago
If you read any weed forum you’ll find endless posts of people who can’t smoke anymore because it causes paranoia and panic attacks. Same with me, used to be fun and now it causes anxiety. There are definitely some long term effects and changes to the brain that have not been sufficiently studied. Luckily it will be much easier now to do those studies.
- gremlinsinc 8y ago
  I've never used, but even w/ health risks, it's better to legalize and decriminalize than send young mothers/fathers to jail and basically create cycle's of poverty. One of the biggest demographics of poverty in America is single-mother's who's bf's are incarcerated usually for drug offenses, though of course some might be gang and other criminal offenses - but still a lot of that has drug related connotations. If mj is regulated/sold openly then likely they won't be distributing on street corners and going to jail, or using and going to jail for possession, causing them to become even harder criminals by association and thus start life-long criminal careers, and giving up on being a good father, and provider. My philosophy is let anyone ingest anything they want (Tide pods are still legal), if they're stupid enough to die or maim themselves -- people shoot firecrackers from their hand and doesn't always end well - people just do stupid shit, but it's their choice/freedom to do so. Until they step over the line and injure others as a result of their stupid actions, let them have that freedom and the government should step out. The government should have help for those who need it to get into rehab/medical treatment and support those who want to get off hard drugs, but deal with it as a medical condition, not a criminal one. People should feel safe going to a hospital and saying I have a drug addiction and want to quit, please help me - without fear of going to jail. The government can prosecute blackmarket sales though, all night/day, I'm cool w/ that, I feel the end-user's are victims even though they choose to 'buy', I don't think they should be at fault for being a 'consumer' of goods, those capitalizing on it should be the only ones charged.
- brandonsometig 8y ago
  Could be because of the insane THC levels in street cannabis. At least if it was legalised it could be regulated to be under a certain level.
  - trixie_ 8y ago
    In certain states the THC/CBD level must be posted on the packaging, but what is a safe level? It will take years to figure that out.

fbelzile 8y ago

> It appears to me that if cannabis was a food additive or sweetener with the same risk profile, no one would think it should be legal. It's not. It's a drug similar to alcohol and will be regulated as it should be.

msbarnett 8y ago

Alcohol, maternal stress, and gluten (according to about as many studies as identify cannabis) can also be contributory factors to the onset or kindling of schizophrenia. If prohibition is our answer to anything increasing the risk of development of schizophrenia, we’re going to be banning a lot of things.

rotred 8y ago

I agree, I think that it should have been decriminalized instead (similar to how it is in Portugal).

slavik81 8y ago
Decriminalization allows criminals to continue to profit from dealing drugs. Legalization will make it harder for them to fund their operations as they now will be competing against real businesses. No longer shall a willingness to engage in illicit activity be sufficient to succeed in this market.

lovich 8y ago

Alcohol has a risk of brain damage[1]. Acetaminophen increases the risk of liver damage and death [2]. There's an argument that we shouldn't allow risky chemicals, but if were being consistent then the risk of schizophrenia from pot use is right up there with the risks of lots of legal, over the counter chemicals [1]https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/alcohol-related-brain-damage https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/... [2]https://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm168830.htm https://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm168830.h...

paulddraper 8y ago
Yep. Think about all the US gun deaths you hear about (34k): homicides, suicides, law enforcement. [1] Then realize that alcohol's death toll is more than twice that (88k): liver disease, drunk driving, domestic abuse. [2] And tobacco is yet again over five times deadlier than alcohol (480k for smoking). [3] It is insane how many Americans die due to injesting poisonous substances. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta... [2] https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

Lazare 8y ago

> Should any substance which enhances the risk of schizophrenia be legalized? Yes, of course. Substances that enhance the risk of death are legalised, after all. :) I think what you may mean is "does this specific substance present unacceptably high risks relative to the benefits?" And the answer from your link seems to be "no". Any attempt to make policy while only looking at the costs (or benefits) in isolation is doomed to failure.

cageface 8y ago

The question when considering legality of any substance isn't whether it's harmful or not. It's whether or not making it illegal prevents more social harm than it creates. At this point the evidence is in that criminalizing marijuana does far more social harm than good. It doesn't make sense to compare psychoactive drugs to food additives because people don't use food additives recreationally.

ValleyOfTheMtns 8y ago

>Should any substance which enhances the risk of schizophrenia be legalized? Sure, as long as the risks associated with legalising it are less destructive than keeping it illegal.

dilap 8y ago

I'd say yes. I think my own right put whatever substances I'd like into my own body is an inherent good that outweighs whatever other negative consequences there may be. (So I'd also like to heroin, meth, etc. legalized.) But even if you don't subscribe to that belief, it's pretty obvious that the ills of prohibition of cannabis far outweigh its very mild negative side-effects (which are far more minor than those of alcohol). Ungodly amounts of violence and suffering have been caused by drug cartels ability to monitize prohibition.

gremlinsinc 8y ago
I agree with this - on the receiving side. Users of heroine, meth, etc are victims or at least mental health cases. -- They need medical help, not criminalization. Prosecute the distribution channels all night and all day, but if we make it legal to 'use' and 'ingest' anything -- libertarian style (I'm a left-leaning technocratic democratic socialist), and only prosecute sales/distributions of banned substance, --it might make 'users' more open to coming forward and saying -- hey, I need help, this is destroying my life and I can't kick it without help. Instead of them thinking.. I need help, but fuck it -- if anyone finds out I'll go to jail.

scarface74 8y ago

How has making it illegal worked out or the entire “War on Drugs”? The only thing it has done is give more power to the “justice system” to lock up poor people and minorities for non violent crimes. Anything that takes a weapon out of the hands of law enforcement to unfairly lock up people, I’m all for.

0x4d464d48 8y ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/following-marijuana-legalization-teen-drug-use-is-down-in-colorado/?utm_term=.3e278e3e2b60 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/follo... If you're hoping to reduce use amongst the general population, legalization seems to be a better course of action than prohibition. I don't think either of us are going to argue that no matter the legal status of marijuana there's always going to be a demand for it and a market. If you're primary objective is to mitigate harm to the public writ large, and not just scorning consumers, I can't think of anything more conducive than allowing for people to be open about their consumption habits without fear of legal reprisal so that healthy social norms and boundaries can be established. Further, if that market is always going to exist I'd imagine you'd rather see the proceeds be cycled into legitimate enterprises that actually support society as a whole and contribute taxes rather than the black economy, which is where it's inevitably forced. The pros far outweigh the cons here.

p1mrx 8y ago

Given the extent to which cannabis can alter thought, we should probably be systematically testing it against all the mental illnesses, with a focus on identifying the minimum effective dosage. Do we have sufficient evidence to say that cannabis can/cannot treat something like schizophrenia? Is it far-fetched to imagine the vaporizer becoming an ordinary medical device?

developer2 8y ago

1. From your link: "only the genetically susceptible mice developed schizophrenia-related changes after being exposed to cannabis". 2. As each argument against legalization fails to make a dent in public opinion, yet another takes its place. At some point, it is no longer about weighing the risks to come to a decision. Instead, critics have already decided that "marijuana is bad", and are looking to point to _anything_ that supports their agenda. That said... good job, Canada - we've done it!