4 ms·

Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? What does democracy have to do with the right to im

Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission? Edit: I’m not commenting on the propriety of the Microsoft employees’ actions. They are clearly free to urge their employer to refrain from participating in something they disagree with. That is absolutely part of what living in a free society is all about. I’m commenting on the notion that they are somehow “defending democracy”.

IanDrake 8y ago
We have to defend democracy by overthrowing our democratically elected government and ignoring our Constitution. What part of that is confusing?
- sanderjd 8y ago
  In what way are the actions of these employees at a private company akin to overthrowing the government or ignoring the Constitution?
  - IanDrake 8y ago
    I didn’t say these employees said that. This is a threaded discussion. Please read the thread.
- sg47 8y ago
  Democratically elected by Russia.
zepto 8y ago
The immigration laws don’t have to be enforced in these clearly abusive ways. A majority of Americans think that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  How do we know that? A majority of voting elgible US citizens didn't even bother to show up to vote. Regardless what we got for the 2016 election, it was no mandate.
  - noobermin 8y ago
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-trump-approval/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-trump-ap...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
noonespecial 8y ago
Its part of the democracy. Not working on a particular thing you know is going to be used in a way you disapprove of is a kind of vote. Hell, even if you approve of how they are enforcing border policy doesn't mean you necessarily want to work on the machinations of it. If a majority votes to carry out an unpleasant action but then can't find anyone willing to carry it out on their behalf, it might be a warning sign. (Honestly, I don't think we're that far gone though. I think we've just got a case of "We should control our borders... wait, no, not like that!")
chris_wot 8y ago
It's got nothing to do with that. Seperating toddlers and very young children from their families is absolutely inhumane.
- naikrovek 8y ago
  It's cruel, unusual, and inhumane, and almost certainly unconstitutional.
  - burfog 8y ago
    Haven't we done this ever since we invented jail/prison? Very few countries let criminals bring their kids to prison or require it. There must be more than one country that puts kids in prison with the parents, but right now I can only think of one: North Korea Most people consider that to be cruel and inhumane. In case you were thinking that parents (or all people?) should never go to prison, well... that gets absurd. Unless you have some other punishment in mind, it means that parents literally get away with murder.
    - chris_wot 8y ago
      People fleeing for their lives aren't in any way criminals. Equating immigrants with murderers is quite despicable.
jaredklewis 8y ago
> Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? I feel you are using the word democracy in a very narrow sense of the word: popularity contest. Look no further than the Egyptian government that arose from Arab Spring to see how little such "election winner takes all" democratic governments differ from autocracy. Democracy, taken in the broader sense of a truly free country, requires much more than just free elections. Human rights and rule of law are just as important. Indeed, our two most important founding documents, the declaration of independence and constitution, clearly outline a vision for a humane country that respects that all individuals possess human rights that our government cannot violate. I believe the parent is calling on fellow citizens to defend our democracy’s enshrinement of human rights. > What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission? Who is claiming these immigrants have a right to immigrate to America without permission? Certainly not the Microsoft employees or anyone in this thread. The letter doesn't complain that ICE is enforcing immigration laws. It asserts that ICE is doing so in a way that is inhumane to children. In short, this isn't just an immigration issue. It's a human rights issue.

IanDrake 8y ago

We have to defend democracy by overthrowing our democratically elected government and ignoring our Constitution. What part of that is confusing?

sanderjd 8y ago
In what way are the actions of these employees at a private company akin to overthrowing the government or ignoring the Constitution?
- IanDrake 8y ago
  I didn’t say these employees said that. This is a threaded discussion. Please read the thread.
sg47 8y ago
Democratically elected by Russia.

zepto 8y ago

The immigration laws don’t have to be enforced in these clearly abusive ways. A majority of Americans think that.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
crankylinuxuser 8y ago
How do we know that? A majority of voting elgible US citizens didn't even bother to show up to vote. Regardless what we got for the 2016 election, it was no mandate.
- noobermin 8y ago
  https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-trump-approval/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-trump-ap...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

noonespecial 8y ago

Its part of the democracy. Not working on a particular thing you know is going to be used in a way you disapprove of is a kind of vote. Hell, even if you approve of how they are enforcing border policy doesn't mean you necessarily want to work on the machinations of it. If a majority votes to carry out an unpleasant action but then can't find anyone willing to carry it out on their behalf, it might be a warning sign. (Honestly, I don't think we're that far gone though. I think we've just got a case of "We should control our borders... wait, no, not like that!")

chris_wot 8y ago

It's got nothing to do with that. Seperating toddlers and very young children from their families is absolutely inhumane.

naikrovek 8y ago
It's cruel, unusual, and inhumane, and almost certainly unconstitutional.
- burfog 8y ago
  Haven't we done this ever since we invented jail/prison? Very few countries let criminals bring their kids to prison or require it. There must be more than one country that puts kids in prison with the parents, but right now I can only think of one: North Korea Most people consider that to be cruel and inhumane. In case you were thinking that parents (or all people?) should never go to prison, well... that gets absurd. Unless you have some other punishment in mind, it means that parents literally get away with murder.
  - chris_wot 8y ago
    People fleeing for their lives aren't in any way criminals. Equating immigrants with murderers is quite despicable.

jaredklewis 8y ago

> Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? I feel you are using the word democracy in a very narrow sense of the word: popularity contest. Look no further than the Egyptian government that arose from Arab Spring to see how little such "election winner takes all" democratic governments differ from autocracy. Democracy, taken in the broader sense of a truly free country, requires much more than just free elections. Human rights and rule of law are just as important. Indeed, our two most important founding documents, the declaration of independence and constitution, clearly outline a vision for a humane country that respects that all individuals possess human rights that our government cannot violate. I believe the parent is calling on fellow citizens to defend our democracy’s enshrinement of human rights. > What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission? Who is claiming these immigrants have a right to immigrate to America without permission? Certainly not the Microsoft employees or anyone in this thread. The letter doesn't complain that ICE is enforcing immigration laws. It asserts that ICE is doing so in a way that is inhumane to children. In short, this isn't just an immigration issue. It's a human rights issue.