3 ms·

Could someone help me understand the issue with this whole thing? If you show up to commit a crime with your children in tow, you are going to wind up separate

Could someone help me understand the issue with this whole thing? If you show up to commit a crime with your children in tow, you are going to wind up separated from them while you go to jail for that crime. That is as true for illegal entry as it is for bank robbery. Why does the Valley feel that it's OK for immigration laws to be violated? Even very liberal countries around the world tend to be tough on illegal immigration. Why are we expected to put up with it in the US? I'm not trying to cause a big political discussion - I'm genuinely trying to understand how intelligent, tax-paying US citizens have arrived at this position. Edit: So just downvotes then, no explanations or justifications for your positon. Got it. You're the best HN!

cycrutchfield 8y ago
It’s illegal to apply for asylum?
- downandout 8y ago
  It's illegal to enter the country without prior authorization, period. See [1]. The rise in families being separated is being driven by the Trump administration's stepped up enforcement of existing immigration law when it comes to illegal border crossings. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/19/the-facts-about-trumps-policy-of-separating-families-at-the-border/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e823bc7faa9a https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/...
- IanDrake 8y ago
  It’s not, but sneaking into a country is different than walking into a border checkpoint or embassy to request asylum.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Not where the US Code is concerned. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 > Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section...
    - AndrewKemendo 8y ago
      Thanks for the link, however the sub-sections are very important because subsection (a) and (e) are exactly what the Attorney General are arguing on top of if I understand correctly. In this case the Atty General could claim that it is in the public interest to take in every unaccompanied alien child (defined as such by law [1]) - however that means that every child would basically go to the foster system while their parents were deported. Perhaps that is what is happening, I'm not sure. In either case, the unaccompanied child and the adult in this case have different processes that the DOJ and in the case of children Health and Human Services, have guidelines to follow. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/6/279#g https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/6/279#g
    - IanDrake 8y ago
      You’re right of course, it’s refugee status that can be applied for at an embassy. Which is slightly different, but none the less alternative legal means.
- leftistcensor03 8y ago
  you apply for asylum legally at a port of entry, like every one else. hopping the border and evading customs is illegal, and bringing your kids with you is not a get out of jail free card. it's really that simple. how do you not see this as an untenable immigration policy and disrespectful to people immigrating here legally?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
nickwalton00 8y ago
Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane?
- throwaway2jiofe 8y ago
  Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane? I can imagine this, but afaik there are no floods or wars going on in Mexico atm. It would be inhumane to punish people in that scenario, but that isn't the scenario we are talking about. Rather, these seem to just be people that don't like it in Mexico and want to go to the US. I want lots of things too, but I don't break the law to get them.
- downandout 8y ago
  I can imagine that there is a war or floods currently going on in Mexico, but afaik neither of those things are actually happening. Yes, it’s a relatively poor country, and they have problems that they need to solve over there. That doesn’t mean we in the US can afford to just open up the floodgates and let everyone from there that wants to come over into our country. There is a process to come here legally, and I am all for legal immigration. I just don’t see why it’s remotely controversial to enforce our laws against illegal immigration.
wglb 8y ago
So you are suggesting that we throw folks in jail for a misdemeanor?

cycrutchfield 8y ago

It’s illegal to apply for asylum?

downandout 8y ago
It's illegal to enter the country without prior authorization, period. See [1]. The rise in families being separated is being driven by the Trump administration's stepped up enforcement of existing immigration law when it comes to illegal border crossings. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/19/the-facts-about-trumps-policy-of-separating-families-at-the-border/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e823bc7faa9a https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/...
IanDrake 8y ago
It’s not, but sneaking into a country is different than walking into a border checkpoint or embassy to request asylum.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Not where the US Code is concerned. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 > Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section...
  - AndrewKemendo 8y ago
    Thanks for the link, however the sub-sections are very important because subsection (a) and (e) are exactly what the Attorney General are arguing on top of if I understand correctly. In this case the Atty General could claim that it is in the public interest to take in every unaccompanied alien child (defined as such by law [1]) - however that means that every child would basically go to the foster system while their parents were deported. Perhaps that is what is happening, I'm not sure. In either case, the unaccompanied child and the adult in this case have different processes that the DOJ and in the case of children Health and Human Services, have guidelines to follow. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/6/279#g https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/6/279#g
  - IanDrake 8y ago
    You’re right of course, it’s refugee status that can be applied for at an embassy. Which is slightly different, but none the less alternative legal means.
leftistcensor03 8y ago
you apply for asylum legally at a port of entry, like every one else. hopping the border and evading customs is illegal, and bringing your kids with you is not a get out of jail free card. it's really that simple. how do you not see this as an untenable immigration policy and disrespectful to people immigrating here legally?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

nickwalton00 8y ago

Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane?

throwaway2jiofe 8y ago
Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane? I can imagine this, but afaik there are no floods or wars going on in Mexico atm. It would be inhumane to punish people in that scenario, but that isn't the scenario we are talking about. Rather, these seem to just be people that don't like it in Mexico and want to go to the US. I want lots of things too, but I don't break the law to get them.
downandout 8y ago
I can imagine that there is a war or floods currently going on in Mexico, but afaik neither of those things are actually happening. Yes, it’s a relatively poor country, and they have problems that they need to solve over there. That doesn’t mean we in the US can afford to just open up the floodgates and let everyone from there that wants to come over into our country. There is a process to come here legally, and I am all for legal immigration. I just don’t see why it’s remotely controversial to enforce our laws against illegal immigration.

wglb 8y ago

So you are suggesting that we throw folks in jail for a misdemeanor?