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Okay, I can absolutely appreciate how hard making a distro is. Point taken. However, your comment also indicates exactly what Zed was furious about. Debian is

by lyudmil 16y ago

Okay, I can absolutely appreciate how hard making a distro is. Point taken. However, your comment also indicates exactly what Zed was furious about. Debian is a piece of software that people depend on. They have a right to be upset when there are bugs. The proper response is to apologize and fix the bug. Period. Instead, your response is to blame the (already angry) user on the basis that they didn't submit a bug report. I would be livid if you responded that way. Yes, you do voluntary work. You get credit when you do good work. It's only fair that you take on the responsibility when your work isn't so good. The Debian community can consider Zed's post a bug report. Now, go fix it please.

davidw 16y ago
Sorry, Debian is not telepathic, so while yes, they should fix the bug, if it hadn't been reported, they couldn't have fixed it. It's absolutely the proper thing to do to file a bug if you find one. That's not "blaming the user". Also, "I'm imagining a mass petition, maybe some funny ad campaigns, in-person confrontations meant to embarrass package maintainers, SEO tricks to get people off Debian, promotion of any alternative to Debian, anything to make them pay, apologize, and listen." is not something likely to make most people apologize, fix the problem and move on. It's rude and uncalled for.
- tjogin 16y ago
  The "bug" in question is not unknown to them. Especially the distribution of Ruby and Rubygems is completely botched. The most common answer in #rubyonrails is probably this: "you've installed ruby/rubygems via apt haven't you? uninstall it and reinstall it manually."
  - davidw 16y ago
    Actually, what he says is "Gems can't even run because the gems needs openssl and net/scp, but the Debian (not Ubuntu) package doesn't install it along with rubygems.", which means that there is likely a missing dependency: rubygems should require ruby-ssl. Of course, the more general point stands that the current state of the Debian/rubygems integration is far from ideal. However, fixing it takes people thinking about the problem and working on it, not just moaning and calling for boycotts. What a pissy attitude: it's easy to say "this sucks!", but much harder to create something better, or fix the broken thing. I would have been quite comprehending of a "I'm very frustrated by X, Y, and Z about Debian". I mean, it certainly has its flaws (I ended up moving to Ubuntu myself). Another thing is this entitled attitude of "let's hurt them!"
    - tjogin 16y ago
      All I'm saying is that the non-functioning state of ruby/rubygems on debian and/or ubuntu is not news. This is not something that Zed just uncovered that was previously unknown. Everybody in the Ruby community knows this, and has known it, for many years. Thus, Zed offering a polite "bug report" rather than bitch and moan about it probably wouldn't have been all that much more effective -- seeing as how it has remained in the current non-functioning state for many years.
      - davidw 16y ago
        > Thus, Zed offering a polite "bug report" rather than bitch and moan about it probably wouldn't have been all that much more effective -- seeing as how it has remained in the current non-functioning state for many years. And trying to round up a lynch mob is more effective how?
        tjogin 16y ago
        Well, Zed seems to have created a bit of a stir, hasn't he? Compared to the previous total lack of a discussion over the last several years, it seems Zed's approach has been quite efficient.
        davidw 16y ago
        Hot air does not fix bugs. Hard work does.
        tjogin 16y ago
        The state of the ruby/rubygems distribution is clearly not viewed as a bug by its maintainers, which is why neither hard work nor a bug report will fix it. Let's give discussion and attention a go.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
__david__ 16y ago
Zed didn't file a bug report, he wrote a rant. Writing a scathing blog post isn't very helpful and probably won't reach the actual person who can fix his bug. Filing a bug report will.
aphexairlines 16y ago
I suppose next time someone has a mongrel2 bug they should write a scathing rant on how much they hate the guy instead of filing a bug at http://mongrel2.org/reportlist http://mongrel2.org/reportlist

by lyudmil 16y ago

davidw 16y ago

Sorry, Debian is not telepathic, so while yes, they should fix the bug, if it hadn't been reported, they couldn't have fixed it. It's absolutely the proper thing to do to file a bug if you find one. That's not "blaming the user". Also, "I'm imagining a mass petition, maybe some funny ad campaigns, in-person confrontations meant to embarrass package maintainers, SEO tricks to get people off Debian, promotion of any alternative to Debian, anything to make them pay, apologize, and listen." is not something likely to make most people apologize, fix the problem and move on. It's rude and uncalled for.

tjogin 16y ago
The "bug" in question is not unknown to them. Especially the distribution of Ruby and Rubygems is completely botched. The most common answer in #rubyonrails is probably this: "you've installed ruby/rubygems via apt haven't you? uninstall it and reinstall it manually."
- davidw 16y ago
  Actually, what he says is "Gems can't even run because the gems needs openssl and net/scp, but the Debian (not Ubuntu) package doesn't install it along with rubygems.", which means that there is likely a missing dependency: rubygems should require ruby-ssl. Of course, the more general point stands that the current state of the Debian/rubygems integration is far from ideal. However, fixing it takes people thinking about the problem and working on it, not just moaning and calling for boycotts. What a pissy attitude: it's easy to say "this sucks!", but much harder to create something better, or fix the broken thing. I would have been quite comprehending of a "I'm very frustrated by X, Y, and Z about Debian". I mean, it certainly has its flaws (I ended up moving to Ubuntu myself). Another thing is this entitled attitude of "let's hurt them!"
  - tjogin 16y ago
    All I'm saying is that the non-functioning state of ruby/rubygems on debian and/or ubuntu is not news. This is not something that Zed just uncovered that was previously unknown. Everybody in the Ruby community knows this, and has known it, for many years. Thus, Zed offering a polite "bug report" rather than bitch and moan about it probably wouldn't have been all that much more effective -- seeing as how it has remained in the current non-functioning state for many years.
    - davidw 16y ago
      > Thus, Zed offering a polite "bug report" rather than bitch and moan about it probably wouldn't have been all that much more effective -- seeing as how it has remained in the current non-functioning state for many years. And trying to round up a lynch mob is more effective how?
      - tjogin 16y ago
        Well, Zed seems to have created a bit of a stir, hasn't he? Compared to the previous total lack of a discussion over the last several years, it seems Zed's approach has been quite efficient.
        davidw 16y ago
        Hot air does not fix bugs. Hard work does.
        tjogin 16y ago
        The state of the ruby/rubygems distribution is clearly not viewed as a bug by its maintainers, which is why neither hard work nor a bug report will fix it. Let's give discussion and attention a go.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]

__david__ 16y ago

Zed didn't file a bug report, he wrote a rant. Writing a scathing blog post isn't very helpful and probably won't reach the actual person who can fix his bug. Filing a bug report will.

aphexairlines 16y ago

I suppose next time someone has a mongrel2 bug they should write a scathing rant on how much they hate the guy instead of filing a bug at http://mongrel2.org/reportlist http://mongrel2.org/reportlist