4 ms·

This is a really ancedotal story with sample size N=1 so YMMV. I lived in a poorly maintained building constructed in the 1920s. I'm sure there was old lead pai

This is a really ancedotal story with sample size N=1 so YMMV. I lived in a poorly maintained building constructed in the 1920s. I'm sure there was old lead paint that was just painted over. Also a couple of times per month the pipes would spew out brown water. During that time I was dealing with a lot of anger outbursts and anxiety attacks. Since I've moved (same city, same job, slightly higher rent), these things really haven't been a problem. Again it's hard to know what the exact reason is, but I do wonder if I was experiencing some version of heavy metal poisoning.

vidanay 8y ago
I don't think heavy metal poisoning goes away with a simple change of environment. You were probably just pissed off that you lived in a shitty apartment building.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  As far as I know it slowly goes down so the story may make sense.
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    >"The most recent evidence from epidemiological and toxicological studies suggests that low levels of exposure can, over time, damage the heart, kidneys, and brain." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797860/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797860/
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      The question is what happens when the exposure stops. Do things get better?
      - kbos87 8y ago
        From what I’ve seen and heard the answer with lead is an unequivocal no - once lead exposure has occurred, the damage is done. It’s compounding and irreversible.
      - wallace_f 8y ago
        Take a look at the link, it's relevant to your question. As mentioned there, your body stores lead in your bones, which leeches into your blood stream. Because there does not appear to be a minimum safe threshold of exposure, even small exposure can, over time, lead to problems as the lead is circulated through your body, as mentioned in the quote. Sorry it doesn't appear clear when taken out of context.
      - R_haterade 8y ago
        One of the things that makes lead (and all heavy metals) so dangerous is the body lacks a mechanism to effectively clear it. So if the only factor in aggression is the amount of lead in the body, then we would have to assume it takes time for the symptoms to subside as well.
      - danburbridge 8y ago
        typically the problem with heavy metal poisoning (lead, arsenic, etc) is that the body has difficulty getting rid of it, so it accumulates. This can also be seen in big fish such as Tuna, which eat lots of small fish (which have consumed various heavy metals) and live for many years.
sbov 8y ago
AFAIK painted over old lead paint isn't a problem. If you sand it it is. For most of these old toxic things, where plausible, the best option is to just seal it and leave it alone.
- kbos87 8y ago
  Yup. Plenty of houses have asbestos siding and lead paint - neither of which poses a significant danger to the average adult as long as it isn’t disturbed. (Asbestos siding is durable, fireproof, and holds paint well too!)
  - vidanay 8y ago
    "Holds paint well" is completely wrong.....that shit soaks up about a gallon per 100 square ft! /s
Theodores 8y ago
I wish there were more anecdotes in the article. It would be good to know that lead was what gave some known rogues their head start in life. I am sure there are many other factors but if a Charles Manson or other notorious rogue had spent their formative years living under an interstate highway then that would be good to know. The guy who invented lead-in-petrol also invented CFCs. He also died quite horribly from some contraption he made to hoist himself out of bed. The downside to not having lead in petrol is that the raw material for the disturbing U.S. movies of the 70's has gone away, so if 'Dirty Harry' was made today then the rogues in it would not be as plausible.
jcranmer 8y ago
The fact that it went away when you left the environment tends to strongly suggest that it wasn't heavy metal poisoning, which tends to have permanent effects.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
I actually used to spend a lot of time on a chelation and alternative medicine forum. Chelation is the way heavy metals are drawn from the tissues when you have metal poisoning. You don't magically get better if you end up with heavy metal poisoning. Without treatment, it tends to remain in your tissues permanently. (However, life is chemistry and there are some foods that can promote the removal of metals, such as cilantro which is commonly found in Mexican fare.) My guess would be the old building had mold or fungus issues. If you are otherwise in good health and don't wind up with a bona-fide fungal infection, moving out of such a situation would go a long ways towards resolving your issues. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-09-21/news/9609210090_1_fungus-books-hallucinogenic http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-09-21/news/960921009... https://www.neatorama.com/2012/10/15/Salem-Witch-Trials-The-Fungus-Theory/ https://www.neatorama.com/2012/10/15/Salem-Witch-Trials-The-...
paulie_a 8y ago
Lead paint really isn't a big deal if it wasn't chipping away. And you weren't eating it. Lead paint isn't ideal but if just existed and was maintained in an older home you had little risk.
ghaff 8y ago
>I'm sure there was old lead paint that was just painted over. You've pretty much described every old house in the US.

vidanay 8y ago

I don't think heavy metal poisoning goes away with a simple change of environment. You were probably just pissed off that you lived in a shitty apartment building.

maxxxxx 8y ago
As far as I know it slowly goes down so the story may make sense.
- wallace_f 8y ago
  >"The most recent evidence from epidemiological and toxicological studies suggests that low levels of exposure can, over time, damage the heart, kidneys, and brain." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797860/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797860/
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    The question is what happens when the exposure stops. Do things get better?
    - kbos87 8y ago
      From what I’ve seen and heard the answer with lead is an unequivocal no - once lead exposure has occurred, the damage is done. It’s compounding and irreversible.
    - wallace_f 8y ago
      Take a look at the link, it's relevant to your question. As mentioned there, your body stores lead in your bones, which leeches into your blood stream. Because there does not appear to be a minimum safe threshold of exposure, even small exposure can, over time, lead to problems as the lead is circulated through your body, as mentioned in the quote. Sorry it doesn't appear clear when taken out of context.
    - R_haterade 8y ago
      One of the things that makes lead (and all heavy metals) so dangerous is the body lacks a mechanism to effectively clear it. So if the only factor in aggression is the amount of lead in the body, then we would have to assume it takes time for the symptoms to subside as well.
    - danburbridge 8y ago
      typically the problem with heavy metal poisoning (lead, arsenic, etc) is that the body has difficulty getting rid of it, so it accumulates. This can also be seen in big fish such as Tuna, which eat lots of small fish (which have consumed various heavy metals) and live for many years.

sbov 8y ago

AFAIK painted over old lead paint isn't a problem. If you sand it it is. For most of these old toxic things, where plausible, the best option is to just seal it and leave it alone.

kbos87 8y ago
Yup. Plenty of houses have asbestos siding and lead paint - neither of which poses a significant danger to the average adult as long as it isn’t disturbed. (Asbestos siding is durable, fireproof, and holds paint well too!)
- vidanay 8y ago
  "Holds paint well" is completely wrong.....that shit soaks up about a gallon per 100 square ft! /s

Theodores 8y ago

I wish there were more anecdotes in the article. It would be good to know that lead was what gave some known rogues their head start in life. I am sure there are many other factors but if a Charles Manson or other notorious rogue had spent their formative years living under an interstate highway then that would be good to know. The guy who invented lead-in-petrol also invented CFCs. He also died quite horribly from some contraption he made to hoist himself out of bed. The downside to not having lead in petrol is that the raw material for the disturbing U.S. movies of the 70's has gone away, so if 'Dirty Harry' was made today then the rogues in it would not be as plausible.

jcranmer 8y ago

The fact that it went away when you left the environment tends to strongly suggest that it wasn't heavy metal poisoning, which tends to have permanent effects.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

I actually used to spend a lot of time on a chelation and alternative medicine forum. Chelation is the way heavy metals are drawn from the tissues when you have metal poisoning. You don't magically get better if you end up with heavy metal poisoning. Without treatment, it tends to remain in your tissues permanently. (However, life is chemistry and there are some foods that can promote the removal of metals, such as cilantro which is commonly found in Mexican fare.) My guess would be the old building had mold or fungus issues. If you are otherwise in good health and don't wind up with a bona-fide fungal infection, moving out of such a situation would go a long ways towards resolving your issues. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-09-21/news/9609210090_1_fungus-books-hallucinogenic http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-09-21/news/960921009... https://www.neatorama.com/2012/10/15/Salem-Witch-Trials-The-Fungus-Theory/ https://www.neatorama.com/2012/10/15/Salem-Witch-Trials-The-...

paulie_a 8y ago

Lead paint really isn't a big deal if it wasn't chipping away. And you weren't eating it. Lead paint isn't ideal but if just existed and was maintained in an older home you had little risk.

ghaff 8y ago

>I'm sure there was old lead paint that was just painted over. You've pretty much described every old house in the US.