4 ms·
> This alternative would include technical standards requiring foreign companies to build versions of their products compliant with Chinese standards, and pres
by pnathan 8y ago
> This alternative would include technical standards requiring foreign companies to build versions of their products compliant with Chinese standards, and pressure to comply with government surveillance policies. It would require data to be stored on servers in-country and restrict transfer of data outside China without government permission. It would also permit government agencies and critical infrastructure systems to source only from local suppliers.
That is the trend in the EU and US as well. Cyber protectionism, more or less.
To be crystal clear: a nation's critical infrastructure that is produced or designed in places which are neutral or quasi-hostile to that nation is suspect. It's perfectly reasonable for China to want its critical infrastructure supply chain local.
It's also perfectly reasonable to mandate that products sold in China be compliant with Chinese standards.
The open question is what constitutes "transfer of data". And, to again be crystal clear: China is notorious for abuse of human rights and for being at the forefront of applied digital surveillance of its citizens. Which is a shame.
> we cannot take for granted that the internet will remain a place of free expression where open markets can flourish.
The internet has not been a place of genuinely free expression for something like a decade now; platform operators set boundaries. Note that open markets are disjunct from free expression.
> . At a roundtable in Dar es Salaam sponsored by Beijing, Edwin Ngonyani, Tanzania’s deputy minister for transport and communications, explained, “Our Chinese friends have managed to block such media in their country and replaced them with their homegrown sites that are safe, constructive, and popular.” Among other countries where China invests heavily, Nigeria has adopted measures requiring that consumer data be hosted in Nigeria, while Egypt has pending legislation that would mandate ride-sharing companies to store data in-country while also making it more accessible to authorities. Chinese partners like Ethiopia, Sudan, and Egypt engage in aggressive online content control.
Notice that there are benefits here: citizens' data is being stored in a country where they have jurisdiction to sue over misuse. I consider that a Good Thing. But censorship, again, is problematic. The desire to be an individual entails being wanting to able to say and write what you desire, regardless of the government's censorship (and China does have people who want this- it is not special in this regard!)
> foundational principles of the internet in market-based democracies:
how disgusting a word choice! we're not liberal (free) democracies, we're market (to be bought and sold) democracies.
- throwaway37585 8y agoMarkets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy.
- pnathan 8y ago> Markets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy. That is an assertion, and my recollection of history suggests that is not the case. Would you mind backing that up?
- throwaway37585 8y agoCan you give an example of a liberal democracy without markets?
- pnathan 8y agoMmm- no, I don't think that's how this works. You're dodging the question. (markets have multiple definitions. a bazaar or person to person trade has existed as an independent variable of governance. a stock market ("the market" usually referred to in these sorts of articles) exists today in a wide variety of modern governance, from authoritarian to liberal. Arguably Athens had a liberal democracy, but no stock market)
- throwaway37585 8y ago> Mmm- no, I don't think that's how this works. How what works? > You're dodging the question. I'm not. Every liberal democracy I know of has a market economy. > a stock market ("the market" usually referred to in these sorts of articles) Why should "markets" refer exclusively to stock markets? What about the most essential type of market: commodities? Markets have existed for millenia, since humans began to trade. > exists today in a wide variety of modern governance, from authoritarian to liberal I didn't say liberal democracy is a prerequisite for markets (and I don't think it is). I said markets are a prerequisite for liberal democracy. > Arguably Athens had a liberal democracy, but no stock market But they had markets, which agrees with what I said. In fact, ancient Athens engaged extensively in trade. It's one of the major reasons it became an important center of culture, arts, and philosophy.