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Why does everyone assume the vendors don't have data? They're recording full sensor logs in these tests, tracking everything they can. They wouldn't even be in

by beat 8y ago

Why does everyone assume the vendors don't have data? They're recording full sensor logs in these tests, tracking everything they can. They wouldn't even be in this field if they didn't think they could outperform humans - and dozens of companies are doing this, from tiny startups to Google to General Motors. No one wants to take on the liability of crappy systems that perform worse than humans. One interesting point of the development is that every failure is an opportunity to learn. The same cannot be said for human drivers. When the automation doesn't detect a hazard correctly, they can analyze it and tweak it so it detects better next time. Do humans do that?

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
A single human can potentially learn from experience. The result is 1 human learns. A "auto" can learn from a failure, and every car using that AI system learns. 1 car results in thousands of systems all learning together. That's the win of cooperative cybernetics, and something we humans haven't grasped very well at all.
- simion314 8y ago
  Yes, that is the hope, but the problem is it "CAN" but this does not mean it actually learns, if you seen what this AI do is just ignoring most of the data since the hardware is not powerful enough, the reality should be that the radar and cameras would work together and identify all the detected objects and not ignore any input. Tesla hit a firetruck, then a police car, it killed 2 humans in similar conditions, did Tesla cars learned from it anything? if it did it was not enough
  - beat 8y ago
    During some political protests a couple of years ago, in my part of town, a driver panicked and chose to drive through a crowd of high school kids crossing a street, with a walk light and police supervision. Luckily no one was killed, but one girl went under the car and had her leg crushed. I wonder how many drivers learned from that one?
    - simion314 8y ago
      Do cars actually live stream everything? If not did Tesla and Uber extracted the data and did any improvement? I did not read anything about that, just blaming the driver and obfuscating the truth. I am not against the self driving car idea, I can't drive because of my eyes and my son also has bad eyes(not as bad as me ) and epilepsy so he probably will not be able to drive a car, I am disappointed because the startups fucked this up by pretending that they can solve the problem with the crap weak hardware and software they have, as long as you can't detect the exact object position and use image recognition to correctly tag all objects and compute all speed vectors this can't be solved and it is clear the current hardware Tesla and Uber use is not enough. Self driving may the future but is not the present and it is not the near future either. Imagine an AI doctor,would you feel good if you know is better then a drunk doctor? Would you send your child with a self driving car that is better then a drunk driver but not then yourself? ,after 1000 kills the ANN would MAYBE adjust some weight somewhere and the changes will increase a bit
      - beat 8y ago
        Oh, that wasn't a Tesla, just an ordinary car, driven by a person who was terrified of that many young black people in one place. Which rolls around to a point that I keep making, that humans are emotional, and their emotional states greatly affect their driving, to the point of deliberately doing things that will hurt or kill others. Road rage is a common problem. I agree self driving is not the present, but I think it's the near future - 10-20 years. And to be absolutely clear - I believe that full-on self-driving technology, with no human assist or failover in normal on-road cases, will be a better driver than me within the next decade. I've had my driver's license for 37 years, and I love driving. I've had two moving violations in my life (last one over a decade ago), haven't been in an accident in 17 years, and haven't been in an injury accident ever. I'm a really good driver. And I'm kind of neurotic about being in a car with other people driving - it makes me nervous, even when I know they're good too. But I'm totally looking forward to the day I can trust my car to do the driving for me, knowing it's better than I am.
        simion314 8y ago
simion314 8y ago
>Do humans do that? do you have proof that with current software and hardware Tesla or Uber can make an AI better then a human? Because it feels to me they are faking it to buy time until some new hardware is ready. They have the data but the hardware is to slow so they can't analyze it in real time so they ignore it, even if say they want to put a concrete related update it may be too intensive and it won't run in current hardware.

by beat 8y ago

crankylinuxuser 8y ago

A single human can potentially learn from experience. The result is 1 human learns. A "auto" can learn from a failure, and every car using that AI system learns. 1 car results in thousands of systems all learning together. That's the win of cooperative cybernetics, and something we humans haven't grasped very well at all.

simion314 8y ago
Yes, that is the hope, but the problem is it "CAN" but this does not mean it actually learns, if you seen what this AI do is just ignoring most of the data since the hardware is not powerful enough, the reality should be that the radar and cameras would work together and identify all the detected objects and not ignore any input. Tesla hit a firetruck, then a police car, it killed 2 humans in similar conditions, did Tesla cars learned from it anything? if it did it was not enough
- beat 8y ago
  During some political protests a couple of years ago, in my part of town, a driver panicked and chose to drive through a crowd of high school kids crossing a street, with a walk light and police supervision. Luckily no one was killed, but one girl went under the car and had her leg crushed. I wonder how many drivers learned from that one?
  - simion314 8y ago
    Do cars actually live stream everything? If not did Tesla and Uber extracted the data and did any improvement? I did not read anything about that, just blaming the driver and obfuscating the truth. I am not against the self driving car idea, I can't drive because of my eyes and my son also has bad eyes(not as bad as me ) and epilepsy so he probably will not be able to drive a car, I am disappointed because the startups fucked this up by pretending that they can solve the problem with the crap weak hardware and software they have, as long as you can't detect the exact object position and use image recognition to correctly tag all objects and compute all speed vectors this can't be solved and it is clear the current hardware Tesla and Uber use is not enough. Self driving may the future but is not the present and it is not the near future either. Imagine an AI doctor,would you feel good if you know is better then a drunk doctor? Would you send your child with a self driving car that is better then a drunk driver but not then yourself? ,after 1000 kills the ANN would MAYBE adjust some weight somewhere and the changes will increase a bit
    - beat 8y ago
      Oh, that wasn't a Tesla, just an ordinary car, driven by a person who was terrified of that many young black people in one place. Which rolls around to a point that I keep making, that humans are emotional, and their emotional states greatly affect their driving, to the point of deliberately doing things that will hurt or kill others. Road rage is a common problem. I agree self driving is not the present, but I think it's the near future - 10-20 years. And to be absolutely clear - I believe that full-on self-driving technology, with no human assist or failover in normal on-road cases, will be a better driver than me within the next decade. I've had my driver's license for 37 years, and I love driving. I've had two moving violations in my life (last one over a decade ago), haven't been in an accident in 17 years, and haven't been in an injury accident ever. I'm a really good driver. And I'm kind of neurotic about being in a car with other people driving - it makes me nervous, even when I know they're good too. But I'm totally looking forward to the day I can trust my car to do the driving for me, knowing it's better than I am.
      - simion314 8y ago

simion314 8y ago

>Do humans do that? do you have proof that with current software and hardware Tesla or Uber can make an AI better then a human? Because it feels to me they are faking it to buy time until some new hardware is ready. They have the data but the hardware is to slow so they can't analyze it in real time so they ignore it, even if say they want to put a concrete related update it may be too intensive and it won't run in current hardware.