5 ms·

Heck I don't understand why most people drive lethal SUVs for short trips that could be much more efficiently accomplished with a golf cart aka NEV. Especially

by wffurr 8y ago

Heck I don't understand why most people drive lethal SUVs for short trips that could be much more efficiently accomplished with a golf cart aka NEV. Especially in dense urban areas where your average speed ends up being only 10-20 mph anyway.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
- People want big cars and big cars are cheap enough for them to get. - For the perceived feeling of safety in larger cars. - For the off chance that once a year they might need to take some extra large load (e.g. help a friend with moving). AKA. emotional needs, not practical ones.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  Which is also why I have always found the notion of "everyone will be using shared fleets" so rich. Carpooling rates have declined across the years in America - http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-potential-savings-ride-sharing-carpooling-incentives.html http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-potential-...
  - stickfigure 8y ago
    I don't see the problem. If you're going to own one vehicle, you need to size for peak loads. If you hail a self-driving vehicle, you can size for the trip. I see no reason to expect the composition of rental fleets to mirror purchased vehicle preferences. Carpooling is not a meaningful comparison. Carpooling requires picking up (and tolerating) other people on a semi-rigid schedule. Hailing a self-driving car has all the benefits of driving solo, plus you don't have to drive.
- ectospheno 8y ago
  It snows where I live. My street floods. I have a family. I frequently want to carry a large number of items. I get that SUV's aren't for everyone. Acting like they are for no one is silly though.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    GP wrote "most people", not "anyone" (though I did write my comment as a little dig ;)). Though to be honest, me & my SO are driving a compact MPV which is larger than our basic needs (no children so far) - we were wondering whether to get something smaller, but it was the best used vehicle available within the budget at the time. And we frequently find use for the extra interior space.
  - hhh 8y ago
    I was rear ended and totaled and got an SUV, ended up that I would be moving every few weeks or months for a year. Having an SUV was amazing for this purpose. I'm finally settled and will probably get a car again for fuel efficiency (40 mile commute) but a truck/SUV is something that can be useful for anyone. I can fit a full 48u rack and have some spare storage left, and having it available if I see something cool is nice.
  - mikestew 8y ago
    It snows where I live. I grew up where it snowed a lot. I've never owned anything that sat particularly high nor with 4WD, and I've never missed a day of work due to snow. My street floods. If the water is above the air intake of a Honda Civic, your SUV isn't going to do you any good. I frequently want to carry a large number of items. I'm continually shocked at how few SUVs exceed the cargo volume of our 35mpg Scion xB. I've moved furniture for a friend because his Equinox wouldn't carry it. I rented a Nissan Xterra to carry a bicycle box that fit less snugly in the Scion than it did in the Nissan. SUVs might have a use, but carrying things is not one of them. Until you threw in the ol' "I have a family" (because the children can not be seen in a Volvo wagon), I thought you were doing a parody of "Excuses SUV Owners Use to Justify Their Big-Ass Vehicle". I'm pretty sure I was wrong.
    - ectospheno 8y ago
      The snow and flooding comments were related to ground clearance, not 4wd.
      - mikestew 8y ago
- tgb 8y ago
  I'm super in favor of smaller transportation and in fact don't own a car, but there are a lot of practical reasons you're ignoring. The size of an SUV isn't such that it only helps in moving compared to a golf-car. There aren't golf-cart sized vehicles that are road-legal in the US and if there are, they're not well-known so who would think to buy one? Golf-carts would actually be less safe on roads where others are driving SUVs (there's a tragedy of the commons here but it's not impractical for each person making that choice). If you need a full-sized car 10% of the time, then you have to buy a golf-cart AND a full-sized car, so it'll always be more expensive to have a golf cart until there are viable alternative ways to access a full-sized car (ZipCar, I suppose). Current golf cart-sized vehicles are mostly open-air and do poorly in inclement weather.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Yeah, I didn't spell out practical benefits of having a SUV, though I feel that in most cases, those are just perceived benefits, not ones actually taken advantage of. Also, I don't think it's SUV vs. golf cart; it's SUV vs. regular cars, for city commute. But my overall point is that I believe for most people (myself included), choice of a car is atypical in a way in which it includes emotions instead of pragmatism.
  - yeukhon 8y ago
    Yes there is. Smart cars come in golf-sized.
- lhorie 8y ago
  > For the off chance that once a year they might need to take some extra large load (e.g. help a friend with moving) This sounds like something a caucasian single person would say. Anyone with small kids would immediately have to think about the logistics of child car seats plus a stroller/wagon (at a minimum), plus whatever else would be appropriate to bring to the target destination (e.g. chairs and a cooler box for a picnic). Those are certainly not thing people do in an off-change. Also don't forget cultures with tight-knit families (e.g. indians) where it's not uncommon for grandparents to live with you (and by extension travel with you) as well.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Anyone with small kids would immediately have to think about the logistics of child car seats plus a stroller/wagon [...] Sure, but you can fit a 4-person family [1] into a Toyota Corolla, even with car seats and a stroller. I've seen it done plenty of times. My theory is the increasing car sizes are driven by increasing waist sizes; a 220 lb couple could be cramped in a car their 140 lb grandparents might have found plenty large enough. [1] The average family is 3.14 persons in the US in 2017 according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/183657/average-size-of-a-family-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183657/average-size-of-a...
    - lhorie 8y ago
      Oh sure, but "plenty of times for a subset of people for a subset of destinations" is a different thing than "every time for everyone for all destinations" (and a very real reason why people buy big cars in real life). When I was a kid, we could fit 4 of us (me, my 2 brothers and my grandma) in the back of a Civic since we were all scrawny and lol what's a backseat seatbelt in Brazil in the 80s, but now as an adult with 2 toddlers and their grandparents, a whole-family trip in a Civic to Costco to buy diapers and paper towels would be interesting to say the least.
  - jpindar 8y ago
    >caucasian WTF? White people don't have trucks (or SUVs) and families?
hashkb 8y ago
Because there are bushes / parked cars at the corners and making a left is tough when your head is 4 feet above the pavement. Source: I drive a small car in Oakland.
- testplzignore 8y ago
  Doesn't this lead to an arms race where cars keep getting taller forever? Maybe we should solve this by making cars transparent at eye level and higher.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Privacy advocates won't let you have that. I suppose this could be solvable with proper road infrastructure design and actually punishing people for bad parking.
- ams6110 8y ago
  In theory, parking should not be allowed that close to an intersection, and bushes/trees should be trimmed or cut down as necessary to allow for adequate visibility. I know that reality is sometimes different, especially if you live in a tree-hugging community where even pulling weeds is a sin.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    Right; drivers should have optimal visibility around corners so they can whip around turns without slowing down. That's the best design for a livable community.
kazinator 8y ago
Probably because people don't want to maintain an entire fleet of different vehicles such that they have the ideally suited one for every half mile increment in intended distance of travel, cross-producted with numerous increments in payload size and changes in weather.
toss1 8y ago
Because you typically do not have a fleet of cars, one for each purpose. It'd be really nice to have a golf-cart-ish car, a little SmartCar, a proper sportscar, an SUV, and a big pickup truck, and use the appropriate one in each situation. But, even people that can afford the spare cash for that kind of stable of cars rarely do it -- it's just too inconvenient, too much maintenance (or too big a garage to keep them all in to minimize maintenance), depreciation, insurance, etc. and nevermind the constraints of city or near-city living where space is at a premium. So, people just get the closest thing that fits most of their use-cases, and that's most often SUVs and crossovers. I'm and example; while I'd be happiest in a small sportscar and it'd work for 85+% of my trips (and save fuel money), my occasional and unpredictable need to carry big packages for work keeps me using an SUV for my daily driver. Even if I wanted the extra expenses, I have winters and no spare garage. So...

by wffurr 8y ago

TeMPOraL 8y ago

- People want big cars and big cars are cheap enough for them to get. - For the perceived feeling of safety in larger cars. - For the off chance that once a year they might need to take some extra large load (e.g. help a friend with moving). AKA. emotional needs, not practical ones.

bobthepanda 8y ago
Which is also why I have always found the notion of "everyone will be using shared fleets" so rich. Carpooling rates have declined across the years in America - http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-potential-savings-ride-sharing-carpooling-incentives.html http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-potential-...
- stickfigure 8y ago
  I don't see the problem. If you're going to own one vehicle, you need to size for peak loads. If you hail a self-driving vehicle, you can size for the trip. I see no reason to expect the composition of rental fleets to mirror purchased vehicle preferences. Carpooling is not a meaningful comparison. Carpooling requires picking up (and tolerating) other people on a semi-rigid schedule. Hailing a self-driving car has all the benefits of driving solo, plus you don't have to drive.
ectospheno 8y ago
It snows where I live. My street floods. I have a family. I frequently want to carry a large number of items. I get that SUV's aren't for everyone. Acting like they are for no one is silly though.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  GP wrote "most people", not "anyone" (though I did write my comment as a little dig ;)). Though to be honest, me & my SO are driving a compact MPV which is larger than our basic needs (no children so far) - we were wondering whether to get something smaller, but it was the best used vehicle available within the budget at the time. And we frequently find use for the extra interior space.
- hhh 8y ago
  I was rear ended and totaled and got an SUV, ended up that I would be moving every few weeks or months for a year. Having an SUV was amazing for this purpose. I'm finally settled and will probably get a car again for fuel efficiency (40 mile commute) but a truck/SUV is something that can be useful for anyone. I can fit a full 48u rack and have some spare storage left, and having it available if I see something cool is nice.
- mikestew 8y ago
  It snows where I live. I grew up where it snowed a lot. I've never owned anything that sat particularly high nor with 4WD, and I've never missed a day of work due to snow. My street floods. If the water is above the air intake of a Honda Civic, your SUV isn't going to do you any good. I frequently want to carry a large number of items. I'm continually shocked at how few SUVs exceed the cargo volume of our 35mpg Scion xB. I've moved furniture for a friend because his Equinox wouldn't carry it. I rented a Nissan Xterra to carry a bicycle box that fit less snugly in the Scion than it did in the Nissan. SUVs might have a use, but carrying things is not one of them. Until you threw in the ol' "I have a family" (because the children can not be seen in a Volvo wagon), I thought you were doing a parody of "Excuses SUV Owners Use to Justify Their Big-Ass Vehicle". I'm pretty sure I was wrong.
  - ectospheno 8y ago
    The snow and flooding comments were related to ground clearance, not 4wd.
    - mikestew 8y ago
tgb 8y ago
I'm super in favor of smaller transportation and in fact don't own a car, but there are a lot of practical reasons you're ignoring. The size of an SUV isn't such that it only helps in moving compared to a golf-car. There aren't golf-cart sized vehicles that are road-legal in the US and if there are, they're not well-known so who would think to buy one? Golf-carts would actually be less safe on roads where others are driving SUVs (there's a tragedy of the commons here but it's not impractical for each person making that choice). If you need a full-sized car 10% of the time, then you have to buy a golf-cart AND a full-sized car, so it'll always be more expensive to have a golf cart until there are viable alternative ways to access a full-sized car (ZipCar, I suppose). Current golf cart-sized vehicles are mostly open-air and do poorly in inclement weather.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Yeah, I didn't spell out practical benefits of having a SUV, though I feel that in most cases, those are just perceived benefits, not ones actually taken advantage of. Also, I don't think it's SUV vs. golf cart; it's SUV vs. regular cars, for city commute. But my overall point is that I believe for most people (myself included), choice of a car is atypical in a way in which it includes emotions instead of pragmatism.
- yeukhon 8y ago
  Yes there is. Smart cars come in golf-sized.
lhorie 8y ago
> For the off chance that once a year they might need to take some extra large load (e.g. help a friend with moving) This sounds like something a caucasian single person would say. Anyone with small kids would immediately have to think about the logistics of child car seats plus a stroller/wagon (at a minimum), plus whatever else would be appropriate to bring to the target destination (e.g. chairs and a cooler box for a picnic). Those are certainly not thing people do in an off-change. Also don't forget cultures with tight-knit families (e.g. indians) where it's not uncommon for grandparents to live with you (and by extension travel with you) as well.
- michaelt 8y ago
  Anyone with small kids would immediately have to think about the logistics of child car seats plus a stroller/wagon [...] Sure, but you can fit a 4-person family [1] into a Toyota Corolla, even with car seats and a stroller. I've seen it done plenty of times. My theory is the increasing car sizes are driven by increasing waist sizes; a 220 lb couple could be cramped in a car their 140 lb grandparents might have found plenty large enough. [1] The average family is 3.14 persons in the US in 2017 according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/183657/average-size-of-a-family-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183657/average-size-of-a...
  - lhorie 8y ago
    Oh sure, but "plenty of times for a subset of people for a subset of destinations" is a different thing than "every time for everyone for all destinations" (and a very real reason why people buy big cars in real life). When I was a kid, we could fit 4 of us (me, my 2 brothers and my grandma) in the back of a Civic since we were all scrawny and lol what's a backseat seatbelt in Brazil in the 80s, but now as an adult with 2 toddlers and their grandparents, a whole-family trip in a Civic to Costco to buy diapers and paper towels would be interesting to say the least.
- jpindar 8y ago
  >caucasian WTF? White people don't have trucks (or SUVs) and families?

hashkb 8y ago

Because there are bushes / parked cars at the corners and making a left is tough when your head is 4 feet above the pavement. Source: I drive a small car in Oakland.

testplzignore 8y ago
Doesn't this lead to an arms race where cars keep getting taller forever? Maybe we should solve this by making cars transparent at eye level and higher.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Privacy advocates won't let you have that. I suppose this could be solvable with proper road infrastructure design and actually punishing people for bad parking.
ams6110 8y ago
In theory, parking should not be allowed that close to an intersection, and bushes/trees should be trimmed or cut down as necessary to allow for adequate visibility. I know that reality is sometimes different, especially if you live in a tree-hugging community where even pulling weeds is a sin.
- kazinator 8y ago
  Right; drivers should have optimal visibility around corners so they can whip around turns without slowing down. That's the best design for a livable community.

kazinator 8y ago

Probably because people don't want to maintain an entire fleet of different vehicles such that they have the ideally suited one for every half mile increment in intended distance of travel, cross-producted with numerous increments in payload size and changes in weather.

toss1 8y ago

Because you typically do not have a fleet of cars, one for each purpose. It'd be really nice to have a golf-cart-ish car, a little SmartCar, a proper sportscar, an SUV, and a big pickup truck, and use the appropriate one in each situation. But, even people that can afford the spare cash for that kind of stable of cars rarely do it -- it's just too inconvenient, too much maintenance (or too big a garage to keep them all in to minimize maintenance), depreciation, insurance, etc. and nevermind the constraints of city or near-city living where space is at a premium. So, people just get the closest thing that fits most of their use-cases, and that's most often SUVs and crossovers. I'm and example; while I'd be happiest in a small sportscar and it'd work for 85+% of my trips (and save fuel money), my occasional and unpredictable need to carry big packages for work keeps me using an SUV for my daily driver. Even if I wanted the extra expenses, I have winters and no spare garage. So...