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A big problem is that the software engineers and algorithms engineers are pressed to deliver demonstrations in very short timescales. This precludes the necess

A big problem is that the software engineers and algorithms engineers are pressed to deliver demonstrations in very short timescales. This precludes the necessary conversations about test interfaces, for example, making the task of the simulation team closer to one of reverse-engineering than of simulator integration.

IncRnd 8y ago
And people getting run over is the result of those software decisions by management, software engineers, and alg. engineers. Don't just be a cog in the machine, doing what one is told to do. Write software in the ways that are known to be correct and responsible.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- w_t_payne 8y ago
  True. Sadly, sometimes this means saying goodbye to your colleagues and friends, and looking for new adventures in an organisation that is capable of acting in a more constructive and mature manner.
- _jal 8y ago
  This is important. I hope engineers working autonomous cars think long and hard about whether they want to be on a team that, it looks to me like, negligently killed someone by choice. The only difference between disabling the emergency braking mechanism and, say, intentionally disabling safeties on industrial machinery is the novelty. I think it was pretty obvious that something like this would happen, and that's why so many people have been making noise about it. Now that we know for a fact that Uber is willing to make this choice, there's (a) no excuse for not coming down on them for it, (b) no excuse for Uber not completely overhauling their safety protocols with the help of an external ethics and legal advisors, and (c) no excuse for engineers working on this for not at least seriously thinking about their own ethics and possible moral culpability. Some people want to focus on the future. Self driving cars will be great! Gotta break some eggs to make omelets! Fine. But those who are killed before that bright future deserve some accountability, those who don't want to be killed deserve some respect, and the makers of said omelets can bloody well be expected to be held responsible for their actions.
cozzyd 8y ago
It seems like a useful thing for someone (the "government"?) to develop would be a some sort of standard simulator interface that can also be used for regulatory purposes. It's not perfect (It would be something of a cat-and-mouse game to prevent companies from just reverse-engineering the tests and companies like VW would drive really safely in the simulator but then unsafely in real life so they can go faster or whatever), but at least it would be safer and cover more scenarios than real-life trials.
- w_t_payne 8y ago
  Autosar comes pretty close.

IncRnd 8y ago

And people getting run over is the result of those software decisions by management, software engineers, and alg. engineers. Don't just be a cog in the machine, doing what one is told to do. Write software in the ways that are known to be correct and responsible.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
w_t_payne 8y ago
True. Sadly, sometimes this means saying goodbye to your colleagues and friends, and looking for new adventures in an organisation that is capable of acting in a more constructive and mature manner.
_jal 8y ago
This is important. I hope engineers working autonomous cars think long and hard about whether they want to be on a team that, it looks to me like, negligently killed someone by choice. The only difference between disabling the emergency braking mechanism and, say, intentionally disabling safeties on industrial machinery is the novelty. I think it was pretty obvious that something like this would happen, and that's why so many people have been making noise about it. Now that we know for a fact that Uber is willing to make this choice, there's (a) no excuse for not coming down on them for it, (b) no excuse for Uber not completely overhauling their safety protocols with the help of an external ethics and legal advisors, and (c) no excuse for engineers working on this for not at least seriously thinking about their own ethics and possible moral culpability. Some people want to focus on the future. Self driving cars will be great! Gotta break some eggs to make omelets! Fine. But those who are killed before that bright future deserve some accountability, those who don't want to be killed deserve some respect, and the makers of said omelets can bloody well be expected to be held responsible for their actions.

cozzyd 8y ago

It seems like a useful thing for someone (the "government"?) to develop would be a some sort of standard simulator interface that can also be used for regulatory purposes. It's not perfect (It would be something of a cat-and-mouse game to prevent companies from just reverse-engineering the tests and companies like VW would drive really safely in the simulator but then unsafely in real life so they can go faster or whatever), but at least it would be safer and cover more scenarios than real-life trials.

w_t_payne 8y ago
Autosar comes pretty close.