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That’s just hyperbole. The US is throwing its weight around for the first time since Reagan. Last time it worked out pretty well. Things have changed a lot s

That’s just hyperbole. The US is throwing its weight around for the first time since Reagan. Last time it worked out pretty well. Things have changed a lot since then with the rise of China and the EU. With the new big players in the world it’s time the US put on its big boy pants and renegotiated its place.

endorphone 8y ago
The entire worldwide trade order was created by the US throwing its weight around. Those cheap Chinese goods, Korea, Japan, the WTO, the poles of axis. Drug prices, intellectual property protections. All courtesy of the US. That order that made the US the richest country in the world, home to the most powerful companies in the world. So the whole Trump narrative that you're regurgitating is a bit odd. And it is already backfiring spectacularly, and is poised to get much worse. Those "big boy pants" turned out to have a smattering of urine and feces in them. Trump's ignorant, hap-hazard way of "negotiating" has alienated friends and foes, and made the world re-evaluate why it is playing the US agenda. Another post noted that the whole thing has been unfair to low income earners in the US, as if the outrageous disparity in the US is really the result of those damn foreigners. Only that disparity has only gotten worse under Trump's ignorant policies.
- frockington 8y ago
  It seems like they are forced to play the US agenda. Are they going to end their military protection agreements with the most powerful military in the world? Are they going to close access to the world largest market? If they want to have a nation in 20 years they likely will not stop playing the US agenda
  - endorphone 8y ago
    "If they want to have a nation in 20 years they likely will not stop playing the US agenda" What a strange claim. How are they going to lose their nation? The EU has a GDP 20x Russia's (not to mention having nuclear armed nations). Canada alone has a GDP 2x Russia. Any of these countries can fend off any imaginary assault, most of which are instigated by the US. The largest market...wait, do you think the US is going to close its doors? Well say goodbye to Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft...well just go through every US company. GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US. It's a very, very different world. US pull just isn't as strong as the post war world when the US was mighty and everyone else was rebuilding.
    - frockington 8y ago
      A shut off would be disastrous for everyone involved so I doubt it would ever happen. Worst case scenario, the US would pick apart the EU. "Hey Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal, free trade if you exit the EU. We'll toss in protection from foreign invasion"
      - tinus_hn 8y ago
        Leaving the EU takes a few years which exceeds your presidents attention span by a few years. Nobody would trust he’d honor an agreement for that long.
        frockington 8y ago
        North Korea seems to and I don't think Quitaly needs much more incentive
        tinus_hn 8y ago
        North Korea is not in the EU. I think it’s unlikely Italy will actually leave but if it does it won’t be because of Trump. It probably depends on what happens to the UK and as the EU people know that, they aren’t likely to let the UK off easy.
  - akoncius 8y ago
    USA will not be able to play this card for long. Trump already expressed doubts about whether USA would defend eastern EU countries. Trust is almost gone already, so USA is losing "benefits" what to offer to allies quite fast. What would be the point to sell products to USA with huge tariff on top of it to the point that local products would be way cheaper? Nobody would buy it. What's the point to expect partnerships in military with USA when for example South Korea is left cold without any discussions about it?
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  "Trump's ignorant, hap-hazard way of "negotiating" has alienated foes and made the world re-evaluate why it is playing the US agenda." What's much worse is that he has allienated friends (specifically when they refuse to kiss his ring, but I digress) and mostly for no good reason at all. The US squandered their advantage of having been respected as a (mostly) reliable partner to a definite CAN NOT BE TRUSTED! in not even two short years. You may argue that who cares? "We're America, Bitch" [1] But I really don't see any sustainability and long term gains in the current model for the world in general and especially for America. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/a-senior-white-house-official-defines-the-trump-doctrine-were-america-bitch/562511/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/a-senio...
  - IanDrake 8y ago
    I think you’re using the word respect wrong. Respect is not earned by being amiable. In the not too distant past we had a president draw lines in the sand and dared others to cross it. Then they crossed it and we did nothing. That did more to lose respect in the world than anything being done today. Today we are saying we want better trade deals for US goods and we’re not asking.
    - tinus_hn 8y ago
      Earning respect starts by behaving respectably.
      - IanDrake 8y ago
        I don’t disagree. To be belligerent when there is no need isn’t helpful. Trump is certainly guilty of that. But willingness to turn your rhetoric into action is more important so that others understand that you mean what you say. For example, if you say nice things, but demonstrate that you don’t mean what you say, then what do all those nice things you said amount to? Nothing.
        tinus_hn 8y ago
gebruikersnaam 8y ago
Bush put tariffs on steel in 2002 : 200000 jobs lost [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tarif...
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  How many jobs were lost from tariffs on labor, i.e. income and payroll taxes, which make employing people in the USA way more expensive?
  - Larrikin 8y ago
    How many?
- IanDrake 8y ago
  Those where meant to be protectionist. We are playing hardball on trade renegotiation. The recently announced tariffs are leverage to get a fair deal at the negotiating table. There’s a big difference between the two motives.
  - endorphone 8y ago
    "The recently announced tariffs are leverage to get a fair deal at the negotiating table." The US has a trade surplus with Canada, has a higher average tariff, has been the bigger beneficiary of trade, yet Trump has announced tariffs on Canada, to an enormous backlash (and Canadians seriously rethinking their integration in the US economy). This isn't leverage, or masterful negotiating. It's a hamfisted moron bashing around with absolutely no clue what they're negotiating. Trump withdrew from TPP (you know -- one of those trade agreements that would remove most tariffs), and quickly thereafter announced that he would sure like to join TPP...only on the "US'" terms (which is hilarious because TPP was entirely at the US' terms). At this point I marvel that anyone seriously puts forth an argument that Trump and his crew of misfits are serious negotiators. They're clowns in a clown show. Trump's great business prowess is that he fucked over so many people -- "negotiating" by refusing to pay them after they did the agreed work -- that anyone of legitimacy refuses to have anything to do with him. It's why his personal lawyer was a real life Saul Goodman. What a farce.

endorphone 8y ago

The entire worldwide trade order was created by the US throwing its weight around. Those cheap Chinese goods, Korea, Japan, the WTO, the poles of axis. Drug prices, intellectual property protections. All courtesy of the US. That order that made the US the richest country in the world, home to the most powerful companies in the world. So the whole Trump narrative that you're regurgitating is a bit odd. And it is already backfiring spectacularly, and is poised to get much worse. Those "big boy pants" turned out to have a smattering of urine and feces in them. Trump's ignorant, hap-hazard way of "negotiating" has alienated friends and foes, and made the world re-evaluate why it is playing the US agenda. Another post noted that the whole thing has been unfair to low income earners in the US, as if the outrageous disparity in the US is really the result of those damn foreigners. Only that disparity has only gotten worse under Trump's ignorant policies.

frockington 8y ago
It seems like they are forced to play the US agenda. Are they going to end their military protection agreements with the most powerful military in the world? Are they going to close access to the world largest market? If they want to have a nation in 20 years they likely will not stop playing the US agenda
- endorphone 8y ago
  "If they want to have a nation in 20 years they likely will not stop playing the US agenda" What a strange claim. How are they going to lose their nation? The EU has a GDP 20x Russia's (not to mention having nuclear armed nations). Canada alone has a GDP 2x Russia. Any of these countries can fend off any imaginary assault, most of which are instigated by the US. The largest market...wait, do you think the US is going to close its doors? Well say goodbye to Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft...well just go through every US company. GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US. It's a very, very different world. US pull just isn't as strong as the post war world when the US was mighty and everyone else was rebuilding.
  - frockington 8y ago
    A shut off would be disastrous for everyone involved so I doubt it would ever happen. Worst case scenario, the US would pick apart the EU. "Hey Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal, free trade if you exit the EU. We'll toss in protection from foreign invasion"
    - tinus_hn 8y ago
      Leaving the EU takes a few years which exceeds your presidents attention span by a few years. Nobody would trust he’d honor an agreement for that long.
      - frockington 8y ago
        North Korea seems to and I don't think Quitaly needs much more incentive
        tinus_hn 8y ago
        North Korea is not in the EU. I think it’s unlikely Italy will actually leave but if it does it won’t be because of Trump. It probably depends on what happens to the UK and as the EU people know that, they aren’t likely to let the UK off easy.
- akoncius 8y ago
  USA will not be able to play this card for long. Trump already expressed doubts about whether USA would defend eastern EU countries. Trust is almost gone already, so USA is losing "benefits" what to offer to allies quite fast. What would be the point to sell products to USA with huge tariff on top of it to the point that local products would be way cheaper? Nobody would buy it. What's the point to expect partnerships in military with USA when for example South Korea is left cold without any discussions about it?
CaptainZapp 8y ago
"Trump's ignorant, hap-hazard way of "negotiating" has alienated foes and made the world re-evaluate why it is playing the US agenda." What's much worse is that he has allienated friends (specifically when they refuse to kiss his ring, but I digress) and mostly for no good reason at all. The US squandered their advantage of having been respected as a (mostly) reliable partner to a definite CAN NOT BE TRUSTED! in not even two short years. You may argue that who cares? "We're America, Bitch" [1] But I really don't see any sustainability and long term gains in the current model for the world in general and especially for America. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/a-senior-white-house-official-defines-the-trump-doctrine-were-america-bitch/562511/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/a-senio...
- IanDrake 8y ago
  I think you’re using the word respect wrong. Respect is not earned by being amiable. In the not too distant past we had a president draw lines in the sand and dared others to cross it. Then they crossed it and we did nothing. That did more to lose respect in the world than anything being done today. Today we are saying we want better trade deals for US goods and we’re not asking.
  - tinus_hn 8y ago
    Earning respect starts by behaving respectably.
    - IanDrake 8y ago
      I don’t disagree. To be belligerent when there is no need isn’t helpful. Trump is certainly guilty of that. But willingness to turn your rhetoric into action is more important so that others understand that you mean what you say. For example, if you say nice things, but demonstrate that you don’t mean what you say, then what do all those nice things you said amount to? Nothing.
      - tinus_hn 8y ago

gebruikersnaam 8y ago

Bush put tariffs on steel in 2002 : 200000 jobs lost [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tarif...

SamReidHughes 8y ago
How many jobs were lost from tariffs on labor, i.e. income and payroll taxes, which make employing people in the USA way more expensive?
- Larrikin 8y ago
  How many?
IanDrake 8y ago
Those where meant to be protectionist. We are playing hardball on trade renegotiation. The recently announced tariffs are leverage to get a fair deal at the negotiating table. There’s a big difference between the two motives.
- endorphone 8y ago
  "The recently announced tariffs are leverage to get a fair deal at the negotiating table." The US has a trade surplus with Canada, has a higher average tariff, has been the bigger beneficiary of trade, yet Trump has announced tariffs on Canada, to an enormous backlash (and Canadians seriously rethinking their integration in the US economy). This isn't leverage, or masterful negotiating. It's a hamfisted moron bashing around with absolutely no clue what they're negotiating. Trump withdrew from TPP (you know -- one of those trade agreements that would remove most tariffs), and quickly thereafter announced that he would sure like to join TPP...only on the "US'" terms (which is hilarious because TPP was entirely at the US' terms). At this point I marvel that anyone seriously puts forth an argument that Trump and his crew of misfits are serious negotiators. They're clowns in a clown show. Trump's great business prowess is that he fucked over so many people -- "negotiating" by refusing to pay them after they did the agreed work -- that anyone of legitimacy refuses to have anything to do with him. It's why his personal lawyer was a real life Saul Goodman. What a farce.