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I’m not sure you understand how nations work. We elect people to work in our best interests. We are in competition with other countries. Our blue collar jobs h

I’m not sure you understand how nations work. We elect people to work in our best interests. We are in competition with other countries. Our blue collar jobs have stagnated since we’ve been off-shoring manufacturing to China. The poor in the US were getting poorer. Not everyone has the ability to transition into a thinking job and we need a balanced economy for these people.

what-the-grump 8y ago
Then tax the rich and feed the poor. Don’t erode the competitive advantage of America. The solution is pretty simple. People are looking east instead of west for everything.
- IanDrake 8y ago
  How does one tax the rich? Please be specific.
1over137 8y ago
Not to disagree (or agree), but it seems to me most USians were quite happy to buy cheap Chinese crap at Walmart & Amazon in the last decades, thus off-shoring their own jobs. The chickens are home to roost.
- zrobotics 8y ago
  This started well before the Chinese were into manufacturing, clear back in the 70s with cheap Japanese imports. Then it moved to Taiwan, and now China. Honestly, wages in the US have been too high to avoid this for quite a long time, and the only way I see consumer manufacturing moving back is through increased automation. Unfortunately, I see no realistic way to bring back the kind of manufacturing jobs in the same numbers we had in the 50s-70s. And nobody wants to work them anyway, a family friend runs a small company making material handling equipment, and he is always short of assemblers. At one point he was starting assemblers higher than welders, and still struggled. We're fighting too many years of telling kids to avoid the trades and go to college. I can't find the link, but NPR recently ran a story about innovative schools that are starting maker spaces. All schools used to have that, it was called shop class. These moves from the trump administration seem to me like closing the gate after the horses have already bolted, and stand to harm what manufacturing jobs we have left as well as pissing off our allies.
  - IanDrake 8y ago
    I don’t disagree with most of your analysis. Especially your point about automation. Now imagine a world where the US can make things again at a cost competitive rate due to automation. Ok, now look at how those goods would be taxed overseas... We still would have an export problem due to other country’s protectionist tariffs. The point of the trade negotiations is to get better terms for US exports. This is critical as we come to a turning point in manufacturing.
    - zrobotics 8y ago
      The trouble, as bunnie points out in the article, is that the tariffs apply to things like components, not finished assemblies. So why would I locate a SMD assembly line in the US if my raw materials are higher, when I can also assemble the product overseas and avoid these tariffs?
      - IanDrake 8y ago
        As I stated elsewhere, consider this as a very dynamic moment in time. Things are changing quickly. I also agree with your analysis of the current situation, I just don’t believe the current situation will be as it is for long.
- themaninthedark 8y ago
  Ah, so it is the poor peoples fault that as the good paying manufacturing jobs were shifted first to Mexico then to other countries they shopped at stores that offered cheaper goods so that they could keep up their standard of living! It makes so much sense when you say it like that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/trade/stories/tr111893.htm?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/trade... http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-23/local/me-683_1_trade-agreement http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-23/local/me-683_1_trade-... If you don't remember, this was supposed to boost the economy and we would replace all the blue collar jobs with high paying service industry jobs. The jobs went away but I didn't see any new jobs being created in north GA or western NC.
- IanDrake 8y ago
  I agree complete with that. I still want to be able to buy cheap stuff from China. But, and this is a big but, I also want to be able to sell to China’s growing middle and upper class. That’s what this is about.
dalore 8y ago
It's the whole competition mentality. If anything the US is in a competition against themselves. Everything seems to fight against helping your fellow man and all about gettings yours before anyone get's theirs. Healthcare for you fellow citizens? So controversial. Billions of dollars for war and killing others? Well that's ok then, let's spend that money no questions asked. You guys are at competition so much with each other that you create scary fake bogeymen (like the chinese) to distract that you're really fighting yourselves. The whole world isn't always a competition to win. I'd rather cooperate and we can all have a win/win instead of a win/lose.
- innocentoldguy 8y ago
  I don't think anybody is fighting against helping their fellow man. What they are angry about is having the big guns of government pointed at their heads while the rewards of their labor are siphoned away under the guise of charity. Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion.
  - AlexandrB 8y ago
    > Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion. You're talking about the subsidies for electric cars, right?
    - innocentoldguy 8y ago
      I do not understand how you arrived at that conclusion. Could you explain? I think my point is simple and clear. If you choose to help the poor at your own expense, it is charity. If you want to help the poor at my expense, it is extortion. People don't mind the first. They mind very much the second. That's it. That is the entirety of my point. There are no hidden layers to peel back. No need to downvote me for being against electric cars. I own one myself.
      - AlexandrB 8y ago

what-the-grump 8y ago

Then tax the rich and feed the poor. Don’t erode the competitive advantage of America. The solution is pretty simple. People are looking east instead of west for everything.

IanDrake 8y ago
How does one tax the rich? Please be specific.

1over137 8y ago

Not to disagree (or agree), but it seems to me most USians were quite happy to buy cheap Chinese crap at Walmart & Amazon in the last decades, thus off-shoring their own jobs. The chickens are home to roost.

zrobotics 8y ago
This started well before the Chinese were into manufacturing, clear back in the 70s with cheap Japanese imports. Then it moved to Taiwan, and now China. Honestly, wages in the US have been too high to avoid this for quite a long time, and the only way I see consumer manufacturing moving back is through increased automation. Unfortunately, I see no realistic way to bring back the kind of manufacturing jobs in the same numbers we had in the 50s-70s. And nobody wants to work them anyway, a family friend runs a small company making material handling equipment, and he is always short of assemblers. At one point he was starting assemblers higher than welders, and still struggled. We're fighting too many years of telling kids to avoid the trades and go to college. I can't find the link, but NPR recently ran a story about innovative schools that are starting maker spaces. All schools used to have that, it was called shop class. These moves from the trump administration seem to me like closing the gate after the horses have already bolted, and stand to harm what manufacturing jobs we have left as well as pissing off our allies.
- IanDrake 8y ago
  I don’t disagree with most of your analysis. Especially your point about automation. Now imagine a world where the US can make things again at a cost competitive rate due to automation. Ok, now look at how those goods would be taxed overseas... We still would have an export problem due to other country’s protectionist tariffs. The point of the trade negotiations is to get better terms for US exports. This is critical as we come to a turning point in manufacturing.
  - zrobotics 8y ago
    The trouble, as bunnie points out in the article, is that the tariffs apply to things like components, not finished assemblies. So why would I locate a SMD assembly line in the US if my raw materials are higher, when I can also assemble the product overseas and avoid these tariffs?
    - IanDrake 8y ago
      As I stated elsewhere, consider this as a very dynamic moment in time. Things are changing quickly. I also agree with your analysis of the current situation, I just don’t believe the current situation will be as it is for long.
themaninthedark 8y ago
Ah, so it is the poor peoples fault that as the good paying manufacturing jobs were shifted first to Mexico then to other countries they shopped at stores that offered cheaper goods so that they could keep up their standard of living! It makes so much sense when you say it like that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/trade/stories/tr111893.htm?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/trade... http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-23/local/me-683_1_trade-agreement http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-23/local/me-683_1_trade-... If you don't remember, this was supposed to boost the economy and we would replace all the blue collar jobs with high paying service industry jobs. The jobs went away but I didn't see any new jobs being created in north GA or western NC.
IanDrake 8y ago
I agree complete with that. I still want to be able to buy cheap stuff from China. But, and this is a big but, I also want to be able to sell to China’s growing middle and upper class. That’s what this is about.

dalore 8y ago

It's the whole competition mentality. If anything the US is in a competition against themselves. Everything seems to fight against helping your fellow man and all about gettings yours before anyone get's theirs. Healthcare for you fellow citizens? So controversial. Billions of dollars for war and killing others? Well that's ok then, let's spend that money no questions asked. You guys are at competition so much with each other that you create scary fake bogeymen (like the chinese) to distract that you're really fighting yourselves. The whole world isn't always a competition to win. I'd rather cooperate and we can all have a win/win instead of a win/lose.

innocentoldguy 8y ago
I don't think anybody is fighting against helping their fellow man. What they are angry about is having the big guns of government pointed at their heads while the rewards of their labor are siphoned away under the guise of charity. Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion.
- AlexandrB 8y ago
  > Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion. You're talking about the subsidies for electric cars, right?
  - innocentoldguy 8y ago
    I do not understand how you arrived at that conclusion. Could you explain? I think my point is simple and clear. If you choose to help the poor at your own expense, it is charity. If you want to help the poor at my expense, it is extortion. People don't mind the first. They mind very much the second. That's it. That is the entirety of my point. There are no hidden layers to peel back. No need to downvote me for being against electric cars. I own one myself.
    - AlexandrB 8y ago