8 ms·
Does anyone else find the whole 'Latinx' thing nonsensical? I understand the reasoning, it's about being gender neutral. But why don't they just knock the vowe
by toomanybeersies 8y ago
Does anyone else find the whole 'Latinx' thing nonsensical?
I understand the reasoning, it's about being gender neutral. But why don't they just knock the vowel off the end and just say 'Latin'?
- andai 8y agoHow's it meant to be pronounced? Latinks?
- TheCapeGreek 8y agoI agree it is nonsensical, but I'd rather it stay as it used to be. Through the usual meme grapevine I saw a tumblr post on reddit about this. Being gender neutral/genderless in this case is also actively ignoring Spanish linguistics (and arguably culture). Spanish is a gendered language like many others. It's not some patriarchal conspiracy to say Latino instead of Latina or vice versa, it's just how the language works. If I remember correctly as well, the gender neutral form would still be Latino. Granted, they're being referred to through English here, which one could argue could benefit from just being 'Latin' (confusion between actual Latin aside). I'm of the opinion to keep loan words as close to the original as possible. Language changes over time but some words are still explicitly from elsewhere. So, keep it as Latino/Latina.
- jakelazaroff 8y ago> Being gender neutral/genderless in this case is also actively ignoring Spanish linguistics (and arguably culture). That argument that conflates the Spanish language and Latin American culture (which is not homogenous). Portuguese actually edges out Spanish in terms of European languages in South America, and there are hundreds of indigenous languages spoken there [1]. It's an appeal to the purity of a culture that is itself a product of colonialism. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_America
- flyingfences 8y ago> Portuguese actually edges out Spanish in terms of European languages in South America We're not in South America, though. In the context of this article, we're talking about a town in the USA with a large number of immigrants from Latin America as a whole, most of whom are Hispanic and comparatively few of whom are Brazilian.
- jakelazaroff 8y agoThis subthread is an aside on the term "Latinx" in general, outside the context of this article. I'm specifically responding to the meme described by the GP, which ostensibly was not created in response to this article but to address general usage of the term "Latinx".
- flyingfences 8y ago> but to address general usage of the term "Latinx" Which, again, in English, is usually used when discussing immigrants, most of whom are Hispanic.
- jakelazaroff 8y agoIt sometimes refers to people who happen to be immigrants, but it's not often used in the context of a discussion involving immigration. Broadly, it refers to people and culture originating in Latin America. Many people use it to self-identify.
- pavlov 8y agoThe Swedish letter Å would be useful here: "Latinå" Too hard to type on physical keyboards though.
- mieseratte 8y agoI love the elegance of this, unfortunately I can imagine an attempt to use it devolving into the "more than two genders" argument.
- pavlov 8y agoThe solution could be that anyone is free to use whatever Scandinavian vowel they prefer. Latinå, Latinæ, Latinä, Latinø...
- jakelazaroff 8y ago"Latin@" is also sometimes used to avoid denoting male or female, but many people prefer "Latinx" for exactly the reason you mentioned.
- enriquto 8y agoI find the usage of the word "latin" in the U.S. rather amusing, because they awkwardly use it to refer to people of non-european heritage... as an european, for me it is synonymous with "ancient roman".
- bluedino 8y agoEverything south of the United States except for the French/Dutch settled area of South America is referred to as 'Latin America'
- enriquto 8y agoLOL, but why aren't french-speakers from Quebec called "latinos" also? It makes no sense.
- mieseratte 8y agoAn American would refer to them as Canadian, French-Canadian, or Québécois if you're feeling fancy. We also have the term Hispanic to refer to folks from Latin America though I'm not quite sure what the underlying difference is.
- bluedino 8y agoHispanic is 'from Spain', so Spanish, Cuban, Puerto Rico...however it's often used interchangeably with Latino. There's also Chicano which means from Mexico.
- dorfsmay 8y agoAnd indeed that in my opinion is an issue. People in Quebec are french-speaking or francophone, but calling them "French" is dismissing everybody in Quebec who is not of "pure" French descent.
- mieseratte 8y agoThat's a very good point, though I always took "French-Canadian" to mean "French-Speaking Canadian" instead of specifying origin and location, similar to how we have the term "African-American" which is a euphemism for skin-color as opposed to specifying origin and location.
- skywhopper 8y agoTry googling "why latinx" and reading up on it. It's deeper than just gender-neutrality, and it's not just about being "sensical". Some here will dismiss it because there are political aspects to the choice. But I assume most people who comment on Hacker News under self-determined pseudonyms can respect the desire and the right of people to come up with labels for referring to themselves that make sense to them, whatever the reason is.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoI read a few articles, and I can understand the viewpoint about how using latino and latina can be seen as problematic. I understood that before. But I don't understand why we don't just drop the o/a at the end and use "Latin". No article seems to explain this, and nobody here in HN has explained it either. I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, I genuinely don't understand what's wrong with simply using "Latin", which would be linguistically more correct in English, and also a contraction of "Latin American". Maybe there's some cultural nuance I'm missing, as I'm not American. All the Latin American people I know identify as being from their home country (mostly Argentina and Chile), rather than Latin American anyway. The whole Latino/Latina/Latinx thing seems to be some Pan-Latin American thing for US residents, trying to amalgamate a whole continent into a single cultural identity.
- clappski 8y agoAs another non-American, the ‘Latin America’ thing stinks of the ‘Oriental’ label that used to be applied to anyone from Far East Asia in the UK. I don’t understand why they aren’t just ‘South Americans’ or are addressed by their national identity, as they are in the UK. (Of course, if the south/Central Americans want a shared ‘Latinx’ identity then good for them, this comment is more about how Americans (the ones from the USA) refer to them.)
- rezistik 8y agoCould you provide the link? I'm willing to google it but I'd like to get the best article and it sounds like you're knowledgeable about this subject.
- rainbowmverse 8y agoThe same reason you use they, them, and their instead of dropping pronouns entirely. It's easier to make language gender-neutral than it is to remove the slot gender occupies entirely. There are probably other reasons.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- corpMaverick 8y agoIt is nonsensical to me. Latino is a Spanish short cut for Latinoamericano or Latinoamericana. The anglicized version would be Latinamerican or just Latin. So they add the gender, Latino or Latina, and then renege it using Latinx. Why adding the gender in the first place?
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoBecause 'sense' and 'language' don't often overlap. Long ago, 'woman' was 'wifman' which meant something like 'one's wife'. And 'wif' meant 'spouse', gender neutral. Now try to convince anybody today, that 'woman' can mean either partner in a marriage. Its not used, today, anywhere close to that meaning. Nobody will be on board. We've got to move ahead from where we are, not where we're 'supposed to be' by anybody's rules.
- drb91 8y agoProbably because people don’t use “Latin” to describe themselves; people use “Latinx”.