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A honest question: why would one choose FreeBSD with jails over something like CoreOS with rkt for a stateless cloud application? If I am not mistaken, Netflix

by krn 8y ago

A honest question: why would one choose FreeBSD with jails over something like CoreOS with rkt for a stateless cloud application? If I am not mistaken, Netflix uses FreeBSD on a bare metal for CDN, but prefers Linux for applications on AWS.

lmm 8y ago
Maturity; an organisation that's been going for 25 years (and maintained backwards compatibility for most of that), a decade or more of documentation/tutorials/... that one can be confident will still work. rkt might offer the same thing but you need a compelling reason to pick something newer and less established.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
tannhaeuser 8y ago
A good question indeed considering "the cloud" thrives on Linux, and increasingly Docker/Linux containers. What I've seen happening is that there are lots of Docker images installing (parts of) Ubuntu/Debian or Alpine on first startup (coreutils, bash, gawk, package managers and what not). Not saying it's against the letter of GPL, but to me this, if not Docker in general, had always the smell of a GPL-circumvention technique. I'm not a GPL zealot or something; if anything, GPL (except AGPL) hasn't so far prevented concentration in the hands of very few cloud providers, and in becoming Android (largest Linux install base by far) a blatant privacy invasion instrument. Given that BSD doesn't require you to go through such hoops for a POSIX API, it's a mystery to me why the BSDs aren't more used in the enterprise/SaaS space.
- solatic 8y ago
  > it's a mystery to me why the BSDs aren't more used in the enterprise/SaaS space There needs to be a name for the fallacy that the technically best solution will always win. BSDs aren't more popular in commercial spaces because it's too difficult to find engineers with BSD experience, and no pre-existing supporting ecosystem. There needs to be a compelling reason for companies to ignore the conventional unpopularity, which means that using a BSD must solve a specific pain point that's visible and understandable enough to executives to get approval for going outside the mold. I hate to break it to you, but your boss (probably) doesn't appreciate why a POSIX API is even a thing in the first place, let alone how it applies to a business case.
- kjeetgill 8y ago
  I've honestly never heard of anyone bring up the GPL or GPL-circumvention in the same breath as Docker. I have no idea what hoops you're referring to. In my experience, the biggest reason most people don't use jails is because people don't use or get exposure to FreeBSD. Nine times out of ten, the servers at your first job or university were centos or ubuntu, and your desktop tower was rhel, fedora, or again, ubuntu. If you're an enthusiast maybe you had an arch, debian, or gentoo install. (shrugs slackware predates me). Without some degree of exposure or evangelism you'll choose what you've seen work over something you suspect might not. And that rationale applies to a lesser agree to docker vs rkt. Nothing profound. It just has popular mindshare so it's the default. You'll have to beat the pants off something to overcome that.

by krn 8y ago

lmm 8y ago

Maturity; an organisation that's been going for 25 years (and maintained backwards compatibility for most of that), a decade or more of documentation/tutorials/... that one can be confident will still work. rkt might offer the same thing but you need a compelling reason to pick something newer and less established.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

tannhaeuser 8y ago

A good question indeed considering "the cloud" thrives on Linux, and increasingly Docker/Linux containers. What I've seen happening is that there are lots of Docker images installing (parts of) Ubuntu/Debian or Alpine on first startup (coreutils, bash, gawk, package managers and what not). Not saying it's against the letter of GPL, but to me this, if not Docker in general, had always the smell of a GPL-circumvention technique. I'm not a GPL zealot or something; if anything, GPL (except AGPL) hasn't so far prevented concentration in the hands of very few cloud providers, and in becoming Android (largest Linux install base by far) a blatant privacy invasion instrument. Given that BSD doesn't require you to go through such hoops for a POSIX API, it's a mystery to me why the BSDs aren't more used in the enterprise/SaaS space.

solatic 8y ago
> it's a mystery to me why the BSDs aren't more used in the enterprise/SaaS space There needs to be a name for the fallacy that the technically best solution will always win. BSDs aren't more popular in commercial spaces because it's too difficult to find engineers with BSD experience, and no pre-existing supporting ecosystem. There needs to be a compelling reason for companies to ignore the conventional unpopularity, which means that using a BSD must solve a specific pain point that's visible and understandable enough to executives to get approval for going outside the mold. I hate to break it to you, but your boss (probably) doesn't appreciate why a POSIX API is even a thing in the first place, let alone how it applies to a business case.
kjeetgill 8y ago
I've honestly never heard of anyone bring up the GPL or GPL-circumvention in the same breath as Docker. I have no idea what hoops you're referring to. In my experience, the biggest reason most people don't use jails is because people don't use or get exposure to FreeBSD. Nine times out of ten, the servers at your first job or university were centos or ubuntu, and your desktop tower was rhel, fedora, or again, ubuntu. If you're an enthusiast maybe you had an arch, debian, or gentoo install. (shrugs slackware predates me). Without some degree of exposure or evangelism you'll choose what you've seen work over something you suspect might not. And that rationale applies to a lesser agree to docker vs rkt. Nothing profound. It just has popular mindshare so it's the default. You'll have to beat the pants off something to overcome that.