4 ms·

>Many people have romantic notion of transcendence and enlightement, but when meditation starts to really work they realize that's not what they actually want.

>Many people have romantic notion of transcendence and enlightement, but when meditation starts to really work they realize that's not what they actually want. Change is scary. Interesting. Would you care to share an example of this?

zentiggr 8y ago
Not directly mindfulness related, but I've been doing EMDR to try to break some self destructive reactions / anxiety. The first major part of processing that got to the core of my panic reactions left me with a 'gaping hole in my brain' where my panic reactions were... I'm still working on what's refilling that void, but I'm not as weirded out as I was those first couple of days. Felt like when something triggery came up, I knew how I was going to respond and then I didn't... and haven't always been sure what else was appropriate. Relearning who I want to be is interesting / challenging / confusing.
- notduncansmith 8y ago
  > Relearning who I want to be is interesting / challenging / confusing. One thing that adds to the challenge is figuring out how to socialize as your newest self, balancing the new internal constraints with the external ones (some of which you may not have been aware of). What have you learned in that regard?
  - zentiggr 8y ago
    I've definitely gotten more assertively talkative, not as concerned if I say something out of tune or that falls flat. I've found a reservoir of resentment/anger that is my next focus... and I've been on the verge of random crying breakdowns here and there. I've been advised that "fake it until you make it" doesn't just apply to startups, and there are lots of times that I put on the "same me" mask while my head spins inside. I can see myself making some waves amongst family and friends at some point as I change, but I can't see any big issues, just adjustments.
sebosp 8y ago
I see it like being aware of impulse timings in you, for example, I now and then feel the waves of both happiness and sadness, when they come and leave and I understand it's temporary, I realize the mood it leaves and that it will end and as I'm focusing on the effect of it on the body I don't quite take so much place on happiness/depression, more like observe and let it be. This state of acceptance is strange for me when it comes to searching for success/praise at work, it is stranger when remembering new/better job/car/app/travel is needed and it's strangest when searching for a significant other.
- notduncansmith 8y ago
  This sounds familiar. For a long time, I didn’t know how to internally straddle the line between “acceptance” (as you put it) and nihilism. Now, while I feel I have a grip on it internally, I still struggle to communicate with others in a relatable way. When my opinion is requested, I usually find it most natural to come to the conclusion of “inconclusive”, which people around me find to be evidence of either weak character or lack of trust. I find it difficult to be outraged about anything for more than a few seconds, after which I’d prefer to either talk about solutions or stop bathing in self-congratulatory angst that has no action justifying it. I also find it very hard to talk negatively about anyone, even those whose actions are abhorrent. Refusing to participate in lambasting a group target usually results in becoming visibly less-accepted within that group. I don’t really do social media, not out of moral superiority but because I don’t have a large enough network of friends to get value out of it (especially relative to the large perceived cost of giving away heaps of information about myself to untrustworthy megacorps). People usually assume I’m trying to sound better than them when we talk about it, despite my disclaimers that I don’t judge anyone who does use these products. So, by giving up values that seem unhealthy, and picking up some that seem better, I’m still alienated from the people I wanted to more fully enjoy the presence of in the first place. When I’m by myself, I’m pretty balanced, “riding the waves” as you say. Then the loneliness and hunger for validation set in, and I’m right back to square 1. I don’t know how to reconcile this.
  - petra 8y ago
    I resonate with many of the things you, if not completely , at lest in direction i'm heading. >> Then the loneliness and hunger for validation set in, I'm thinking about getting a dog. It's suppose to be great for validation and against loneliness, and also, taking care of a dog seems really compatible with the spiritual path - a caring, compassionate relationship - but a silent one.
spatular 8y ago
I'll add that normal people act mostly out of desire to have something or to not have or experience something. After completion of 1st "path" Self is seen to be an illusion, after 2nd path craving and aversion are greatly reduced. Saying that it affects motivation is a bit of understatement, since it completely changes frame of reference. About people getting unwanted outcome, dissolution of self is known to be unpleasant (aka "Dark Night"), but it's a temporarily unpleasant stage. I've not heard of anyone regretting completing 1-st path after it's done.

zentiggr 8y ago

Not directly mindfulness related, but I've been doing EMDR to try to break some self destructive reactions / anxiety. The first major part of processing that got to the core of my panic reactions left me with a 'gaping hole in my brain' where my panic reactions were... I'm still working on what's refilling that void, but I'm not as weirded out as I was those first couple of days. Felt like when something triggery came up, I knew how I was going to respond and then I didn't... and haven't always been sure what else was appropriate. Relearning who I want to be is interesting / challenging / confusing.

notduncansmith 8y ago
> Relearning who I want to be is interesting / challenging / confusing. One thing that adds to the challenge is figuring out how to socialize as your newest self, balancing the new internal constraints with the external ones (some of which you may not have been aware of). What have you learned in that regard?
- zentiggr 8y ago
  I've definitely gotten more assertively talkative, not as concerned if I say something out of tune or that falls flat. I've found a reservoir of resentment/anger that is my next focus... and I've been on the verge of random crying breakdowns here and there. I've been advised that "fake it until you make it" doesn't just apply to startups, and there are lots of times that I put on the "same me" mask while my head spins inside. I can see myself making some waves amongst family and friends at some point as I change, but I can't see any big issues, just adjustments.

sebosp 8y ago

I see it like being aware of impulse timings in you, for example, I now and then feel the waves of both happiness and sadness, when they come and leave and I understand it's temporary, I realize the mood it leaves and that it will end and as I'm focusing on the effect of it on the body I don't quite take so much place on happiness/depression, more like observe and let it be. This state of acceptance is strange for me when it comes to searching for success/praise at work, it is stranger when remembering new/better job/car/app/travel is needed and it's strangest when searching for a significant other.

notduncansmith 8y ago
This sounds familiar. For a long time, I didn’t know how to internally straddle the line between “acceptance” (as you put it) and nihilism. Now, while I feel I have a grip on it internally, I still struggle to communicate with others in a relatable way. When my opinion is requested, I usually find it most natural to come to the conclusion of “inconclusive”, which people around me find to be evidence of either weak character or lack of trust. I find it difficult to be outraged about anything for more than a few seconds, after which I’d prefer to either talk about solutions or stop bathing in self-congratulatory angst that has no action justifying it. I also find it very hard to talk negatively about anyone, even those whose actions are abhorrent. Refusing to participate in lambasting a group target usually results in becoming visibly less-accepted within that group. I don’t really do social media, not out of moral superiority but because I don’t have a large enough network of friends to get value out of it (especially relative to the large perceived cost of giving away heaps of information about myself to untrustworthy megacorps). People usually assume I’m trying to sound better than them when we talk about it, despite my disclaimers that I don’t judge anyone who does use these products. So, by giving up values that seem unhealthy, and picking up some that seem better, I’m still alienated from the people I wanted to more fully enjoy the presence of in the first place. When I’m by myself, I’m pretty balanced, “riding the waves” as you say. Then the loneliness and hunger for validation set in, and I’m right back to square 1. I don’t know how to reconcile this.
- petra 8y ago
  I resonate with many of the things you, if not completely , at lest in direction i'm heading. >> Then the loneliness and hunger for validation set in, I'm thinking about getting a dog. It's suppose to be great for validation and against loneliness, and also, taking care of a dog seems really compatible with the spiritual path - a caring, compassionate relationship - but a silent one.

spatular 8y ago

I'll add that normal people act mostly out of desire to have something or to not have or experience something. After completion of 1st "path" Self is seen to be an illusion, after 2nd path craving and aversion are greatly reduced. Saying that it affects motivation is a bit of understatement, since it completely changes frame of reference. About people getting unwanted outcome, dissolution of self is known to be unpleasant (aka "Dark Night"), but it's a temporarily unpleasant stage. I've not heard of anyone regretting completing 1-st path after it's done.