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Many rich people are rich because they employ people and profit from it. Many rich people are rich because they own real wealth and not (just) money. Rich peopl

by gepi79 8y ago

Many rich people are rich because they employ people and profit from it. Many rich people are rich because they own real wealth and not (just) money. Rich people are not the problem. Rich people are no excuse for doing bad things. Poverty is no excuse for doing bad things. Deficient morality leads to bad actions and bad constraints. Change requires change. Understanding who and what to blame is an improvement. Becoming vegan is an improvement. Voting for better politicians is an improvement.

jopsen 8y ago
So true, yet we largely agree that the broadest shoulders should beat the largest load... ie. progressive taxes. We should do more of that to fight poverty, as that will hopefully mitigate things like this.
- gepi79 8y ago
  Thanks. I agree that we should have the morality to defend Human Rights and to not tolerate poverty. Unfortunately no state in the world respects the Human Rights for its citizens. http://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/human-rights/ http://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/human-rights/ IMO not progressive taxes but progressive economics and progressive politics should be implemented. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2X_Ywepzm46_uGJDfRjYeQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2X_Ywepzm46_uGJDfRjYeQ/vid... IMO in a perfect world, there would be no tax and no debt but a moral government that distributes money as needed to private persons and not to banks by the central bank and by bailout programs. E.g. https://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported/#648e0e8626b0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the...
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Perfect worlds are, probably, the worst of all possible outcomes. It is unfortunate that how the world is conducted at any point in time is largely a result of the choices of those with the most power to bring about their desires. So it has always been and so shall it always be.
    - nickthemagicman 8y ago
      > It is unfortunate that how the world is conducted at any point in time is largely a result of the choices of those with the most power to bring about their desires. This is scary but true. Why are human beings so primitive?
      - jopsen 8y ago
        Could it at the same time be, that the less wealthy people are getting more influencial? Certainly, democracy have made this happen... Certainly, media have made politicians more accountable... So while sure it might look bleak on a scale of 10-15 years, I would argue we are better off than in the 70ties :)
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  I’d argue: the problem with progressive taxes is ... ok, the problem with taxes as a means of wealth transfer is it puts the money in the hands of politicians, who are themselves already wealthy, to spend on behalf of their drinking buddies. I don’t believe these problems are solvable in the strict sense, but they are fun to critique.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    Sometimes you just have to fight even though you expect to lose. Edit: spelling.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      Very true! We’ve had some great wins over the ages. As a stereotypically apathetic Australian: those who can be bothered fighting the good fight certainly have my supportive clicks!
    - JetSpiegel 8y ago
      *lose Who am I kidding, I simply gave up on getting people to know the difference between "loose" and "lose".
nickthemagicman 8y ago
Become vegan and vote? Thats the whitest most privileged first world solution I've ever heard. There's around 3 billion people in the world who don't know where their next meal is coming from. Should they also recycle? They are not concerned with abstract concepts like morality when their fundamental survival is at stake. You, me, anyone would kill someone to feed their kid without a second thought. Dyanamiting fish is NOTHING to these people. >Many rich people are rich because they employ people and profit from it. Correction: Without proper regulations, Rich people EXPLOIT people in subhuman wages/conditions to make insane profit. >Many rich people are rich because they own real wealth and not (just) money. Rich people are not the problem. Rich people are no excuse for doing bad things. You basically just said "rich people aren't the problem" with no evidence for that claim. You have not sufficiently made the case that rich people aren't the problem.
- gepi79 8y ago
  Vegan food is the cheapest food and the most efficient food with regard to natural resources in the Philippines. Eating meat is a tradition and a personal choice but not a requirement in the Philippines. Maybe several millions but not billions of people are hunters or farmers living in barren locations were only grass and shrubs grow well and thus animal products are needed. Too often land is stolen for animal farming. Too often deserts are created by animal farming. Animal farming is maybe the most important activity promoting global warming. Regarding rich people: -) Why not become rich yourself instead of working for rich people ? You can not do anything else than work for rich people ? Thus rich people are not the problem. -) Except for Swaziland and North Korea, all (AFAIK) poor states in the world are democratic states were people vote for those in power. Thus the rich minority or the 10% or the 1% is not the problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_monarchy#Contemporary_monarchies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_monarchy#Contemporary...

by gepi79 8y ago

jopsen 8y ago

So true, yet we largely agree that the broadest shoulders should beat the largest load... ie. progressive taxes. We should do more of that to fight poverty, as that will hopefully mitigate things like this.

gepi79 8y ago
Thanks. I agree that we should have the morality to defend Human Rights and to not tolerate poverty. Unfortunately no state in the world respects the Human Rights for its citizens. http://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/human-rights/ http://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/human-rights/ IMO not progressive taxes but progressive economics and progressive politics should be implemented. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2X_Ywepzm46_uGJDfRjYeQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2X_Ywepzm46_uGJDfRjYeQ/vid... IMO in a perfect world, there would be no tax and no debt but a moral government that distributes money as needed to private persons and not to banks by the central bank and by bailout programs. E.g. https://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported/#648e0e8626b0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the...
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Perfect worlds are, probably, the worst of all possible outcomes. It is unfortunate that how the world is conducted at any point in time is largely a result of the choices of those with the most power to bring about their desires. So it has always been and so shall it always be.
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    > It is unfortunate that how the world is conducted at any point in time is largely a result of the choices of those with the most power to bring about their desires. This is scary but true. Why are human beings so primitive?
    - jopsen 8y ago
      Could it at the same time be, that the less wealthy people are getting more influencial? Certainly, democracy have made this happen... Certainly, media have made politicians more accountable... So while sure it might look bleak on a scale of 10-15 years, I would argue we are better off than in the 70ties :)
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
I’d argue: the problem with progressive taxes is ... ok, the problem with taxes as a means of wealth transfer is it puts the money in the hands of politicians, who are themselves already wealthy, to spend on behalf of their drinking buddies. I don’t believe these problems are solvable in the strict sense, but they are fun to critique.
- jacobush 8y ago
  Sometimes you just have to fight even though you expect to lose. Edit: spelling.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Very true! We’ve had some great wins over the ages. As a stereotypically apathetic Australian: those who can be bothered fighting the good fight certainly have my supportive clicks!
  - JetSpiegel 8y ago
    *lose Who am I kidding, I simply gave up on getting people to know the difference between "loose" and "lose".

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Become vegan and vote? Thats the whitest most privileged first world solution I've ever heard. There's around 3 billion people in the world who don't know where their next meal is coming from. Should they also recycle? They are not concerned with abstract concepts like morality when their fundamental survival is at stake. You, me, anyone would kill someone to feed their kid without a second thought. Dyanamiting fish is NOTHING to these people. >Many rich people are rich because they employ people and profit from it. Correction: Without proper regulations, Rich people EXPLOIT people in subhuman wages/conditions to make insane profit. >Many rich people are rich because they own real wealth and not (just) money. Rich people are not the problem. Rich people are no excuse for doing bad things. You basically just said "rich people aren't the problem" with no evidence for that claim. You have not sufficiently made the case that rich people aren't the problem.

gepi79 8y ago
Vegan food is the cheapest food and the most efficient food with regard to natural resources in the Philippines. Eating meat is a tradition and a personal choice but not a requirement in the Philippines. Maybe several millions but not billions of people are hunters or farmers living in barren locations were only grass and shrubs grow well and thus animal products are needed. Too often land is stolen for animal farming. Too often deserts are created by animal farming. Animal farming is maybe the most important activity promoting global warming. Regarding rich people: -) Why not become rich yourself instead of working for rich people ? You can not do anything else than work for rich people ? Thus rich people are not the problem. -) Except for Swaziland and North Korea, all (AFAIK) poor states in the world are democratic states were people vote for those in power. Thus the rich minority or the 10% or the 1% is not the problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_monarchy#Contemporary_monarchies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_monarchy#Contemporary...